Hand...
 

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (9 max, 8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, BB calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, MP1 calls, Hero calls, Button folds.

River: (11.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, MP1 folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 12.25 BB

BB is pretty rediculous. 98/23 over 61 hands. Not suprisingly he is also very bad postflop.

MP is 55/14 shorthanded. My raise was an isoraise + crappy player. I felt like I'd have plenty of equity 3-way with initiative. No read on button.

I feel like the flop call is close/bad.

I think the turn is fine.

I think the river is fine.

Someone argue with me please. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Thanks,

Krishan

Re: Hand...
 

On the flop you are getting 16:1 closing the action. You have 6 outs, but all of them they are horribly tainted. If you do hit, your opponents also hae plenty of redraws. On top of all this, you have 3 opponents, who may be likeing their hands, and costing you a fortune to get to showdown. I think you can fold this. Once you get past the flop, you pick up a real draw, so can continue. River is obviously standard.

Preflop is standard also, I do this with 77.

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PREFLOP: Fine. I think cold-calling is OK too.

FLOP: I'm not giving myself much more than 2 or 3 outs here, and folding the flop. Redraws, not knowing whether you are ahead if you do catch, and reverse implied odds make this really difficult to play even when you catch something.

TURN: This is pretty close IMO. Your getting around 11:1 on implied odds if you hit. You have a ton of outs, but none of them are even close to the nuts. BB suddenly seems to like his hand, and MP1 is obviously drawing. How many outs are good? I think this is a borderline call...

RIVER: Standard.

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What are we putting BB on?

The turn donk reaks of 2 clubs or a jack a certian % of the time.

Not sure if it's over 7.5% but I'm not convinced it's under either.

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I think the flop should be a bet, or check/fold. given your description of the two others in the hand I like check/fold.

check/call doesnt work for me because your outs are tainted, and the tainted ones that you don't know about have reverse implied odds.

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I fold the flop. You're getting incredible pot odds, but every out could end up costing you badly. Someone easily has a J (probably MP1), so you're 8 outs are completely tainted, I'd say .5 outs only because hitting an 8 gives you then shot at a house on the river. At best, I'd give the idiot end of the straight draw 2 effective outs. Even then, redraws are a big concern.

The turn adds a gutshot though that's not dangerous, so I like that call and the river fold.

Re: Hand...
 

Everything in this post is correct. Flop does have horrible reverse implied odds. The pot is pretty big though and I'm closing the action. There has to be a pot size where you would call with incredibly tainted outs like this.

The dumb thing about this particular hand is I was ahead all the way. Villian had J6o. If I had thought about the river instead of clicking the autofold button I might have found a call on that river when the middle player folds.

Krishan

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OMFG, ouch [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

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[ QUOTE ]


The dumb thing about this particular hand is I was ahead all the way. Villian had J6o. If I had thought about the river instead of clicking the autofold button I might have found a call on that river when the middle player folds.


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You win occasionally on the river. I highly doubt it is more often than 1 in 15.

Re: Hand...
 

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You win occasionally on the river. I highly doubt it is more often than 1 in 15.

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I think it's more than 1 in 15. Did you catch the read? Also think about what a turn donk means. Most of the time it's a pair picking up a draw or a draw picking up a pair. He probably would have check raised a weak pair on the flop right?

Krishan

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You win occasionally on the river. I highly doubt it is more often than 1 in 15.

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Did you catch the read?

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Oops. Easy river call [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. If he were any less of a retard, I would fold though.

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You win occasionally on the river. I highly doubt it is more often than 1 in 15.

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I initially thought the river fold was good as well, but given the villian is near 100VPIP, I can see picking off a bluff 1/15th of the time. Of couse, I'm tainted by knowing the results now [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

If the MP had called, I think it's a very easy river fold.

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If the MP had called, I think it's a very easy river fold.

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Absolutely. But only having to beat a guy with only 2 brain cells with a large pot I think makes the river a call.

I'm glad none of you were able to come up with it though. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Krishan

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I'd fold flop(savvy check) and make a crying river call.

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You win occasionally on the river. I highly doubt it is more often than 1 in 15.

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I think it's more than 1 in 15. Did you catch the read? Also think about what a turn donk means. Most of the time it's a pair picking up a draw or a draw picking up a pair. He probably would have check raised a weak pair on the flop right?

Krishan

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I think its more than 1/15 too. 15 times is a lot when you think about it, because this kind of situation normally won't even happen close to 15 times in a single session. This is where I think the reasoning the pot is big is good enough to make a call.

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I'm glad none of you were able to come up with it though.

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I actually thought "retard bets, MP folds? I might call that river" when I read the original post, but didn't 'grunch' this thread. Yes, I want a cookie.

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I dont like the preflop 3bet with 88. I prefer calling and seeing a flop. I dont like the flop call also cause my outs with so many people have a good chance of being no good -also i am almost certain one of them has a J so i have at least one less out for sure.

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ugh. im folding the flop. why are you playing 9max anyway? how are the games?

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ugh. im folding the flop. why are you playing 9max anyway? how are the games?

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I play whatever games are good. It must have been good.

Today I played ...

871 10/20 6 max
126 15/30 6 max
162 10/20 full/9 max (6.77 avg player) I sit when short and stay if it's good.
20 15/30 full (5.77 avg player)

Krishan

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ugh. im folding the flop. why are you playing 9max anyway?

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Theoretically how big must the pot be to call with 6 atrociously dirty outs? I mean I have to have at least 1 outs rights?

Krishan

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ugh. im folding the flop. why are you playing 9max anyway?

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Theoretically how big must the pot be to call with 6 atrociously dirty outs? I mean I have to have at least 1 outs rights?

Krishan

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well, the problem is your effective and implied odds are terrible bc you are putting in 2 more bbs when you hit an still lose (which is fairly often) and often you are not getting full value when you are good.

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ugh. im folding the flop. why are you playing 9max anyway?

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Theoretically how big must the pot be to call with 6 atrociously dirty outs? I mean I have to have at least 1 outs rights?

Krishan

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well, the problem is your effective and implied odds are terrible bc you are putting in 2 more bbs when you hit an still lose (which is fairly often) and often you are not getting full value when you are good.

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I'm hoping you'll quantify it. I know it's really tough to quantify.

Krishan