King Yao Starting Hand Chart
 

There are numberous versions of Ed Miller's starting hand charts out there, in both PDF and Excel format. I was wondering if anyone has a copy of a similar chart for Yao. I am trying to do a comparison of the two. Appreciate any help you guys can offer.

Re: King Yao Starting Hand Chart
 

That would be copywritted material.

Re: King Yao Starting Hand Chart
 

Surely a King would not mind!

Re: King Yao Starting Hand Chart
 

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That would be copywritted material.

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I am guessing you don't have a copy Miller's chart either then. I own the book. I own Miller's book. I wrote my own for Miller. I found a better copy out there to replace mine. I don't suppose for a minute that Ed would be pissed about it, and I would think any court would laugh at my measly little chart. I was hoping I could find on for Yao's book as well, but if not, I can make my own.

By the way, the word you were trying to reference is "copyrighted".

Re: King Yao Starting Hand Chart
 

Laugh,I almost can't believe I wrote copywritted. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Anyhow, it would appear that its 'ok' for the SSH chart to be here as neither Mason or Ed have said anything about it (as far as I know) but it's totally different to reproduce the work here of an author of a different publishing company without permission.

Re: King Yao Starting Hand Chart
 

We don't appreciate that our copyrighted material be reproduced for commercial purposes, and we take this seriously when it does happen.

MM

Re: King Yao Starting Hand Chart
 

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There are numberous versions of Ed Miller's starting hand charts out there, in both PDF and Excel format.

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That's news to me.

MM

Re: King Yao Starting Hand Chart
 

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That would be copyrighted material.

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Are you sure about that? From the U.S. Copyright Office FAQ:

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Copyright does not protect facts, ideas, systems, or methods of operation, although it may protect the way these things are expressed. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section "What Works Are Protected."

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Also:

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How do I protect my idea?
Copyright does not protect ideas, concepts, systems, or methods of doing something. You may express your ideas in writing or drawings and claim copyright in your description, but be aware that copyright will not protect the idea itself as revealed in your written or artistic work.

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Heh ..
 

I take it you guys don't visit the micro-forum much, eh?

Z.

Re: Heh ..
 

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I take it you guys don't visit the micro-forum much, eh?

Z.

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They haven't even ever read the faq as the link to the starting hand charts thread where they are offered in Excell and PDF is in it.

But I think Mason saying "commercially" is what is important in this discussion. If you try to sell a chart saying that it's the SSHE chart they will seriously oblige.

Re: King Yao Starting Hand Chart
 

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There are numberous versions of Ed Miller's starting hand charts out there, in both PDF and Excel format.

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That's news to me.

MM

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Particularly if the chart is reformatted, there is no way 2p2 can assert copyright ownership. You guys own the expression of the idea, but if somebody takes the idea and changes its expression (i.e., reformatting into a better, more readable/memorizable chart), you have no intellectual property rights to the new chart.

Re: King Yao Starting Hand Chart
 

I just made my own chart up based on Yao's recommendation and similar to the colorized Miller SSHE excel chart you can find links to on this board. Don't use it as much now as I did a couple of months ago. Got a better feel from playing several K hands. Only reference it now and then. You can make your own fairly quickly.

Re: King Yao Starting Hand Chart
 

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We don't appreciate that our copyrighted material be reproduced for commercial purposes, and we take this seriously when it does happen.

MM

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I in no way suggested any commercial use in my initial request. The chart I made, as well as the ones I downloaded, gave reference as to where the ideas came from, giving full credit to Miller et. al.

Re: King Yao Starting Hand Chart
 

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Surely a King would not mind!

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nicely done

Re: King Yao Starting Hand Chart
 

Just to put the copyright issue to bed, COPYING a SUBSTANTIAL part of a work in which copyright subsists would infringe copyright. The so-called "Miller Charts" floating about do not look like anything found in SSHE. They are someone else's representation of the information found in SSHE (and attract copyright in their own right). As correctly pointed out by others, copyright does not protect information per se, only the expression of that information. Where tabulations of data are concerned, the threshhold for infringing copyright is in fact quite high.

Thus, you are free to use the info in Yao's book to create your own chart, just don't copy his chart!