Blind Battles: Hand #6
 

SB is a tough, solid tricky player. You play alot together and metagame counts. He raises the SB alot against you.

Everyone folds to SB and he raises, you call in the BB with 5Js.

Flop is 5Q7 twotone none of your suit.

He bets, you raise, he reraises, you call.

Turn is a 4

He bets

Easy fold?

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #6
 

You should know his style by now. Is he ever playing AK or a flush draw like this? Probably an easy fold, but if he is pretty agro, and can semi-bluff a lot, I guess you could call down sometimes.

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #6
 

Not an easy fold for me. Whether I pay off depends on very recent history - like what I did the last 2 times this happened in the session. Not easy at all.

-DeathDonkey

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #6
 

I probably fold. Ive also been waiting until the turn to raise here a lot.

-Mike

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #6
 

i dont see this as an easy fold, I see it as a tougher situation that depends on what is happening at the table. What will he play at u with, is he being solid or making moves, etc.

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #6
 

[ QUOTE ]
You play alot together and metagame counts

[/ QUOTE ]

if i have called him down light the last few times or caught him bluffing a recently this is a fold.

if i have folded and felt pushed around i will call.

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #6
 

[ QUOTE ]
I probably fold. Ive also been waiting until the turn to raise here a lot.

-Mike

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too.

Surf

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #6
 

i usually wait till the turn to raise this too but not all the time of course.

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #6
 

[ QUOTE ]
i usually wait till the turn to raise this too but not all the time of course.

[/ QUOTE ]

I usually save my "wait till the turn to raise" spots for higher pairs. I didn't realize people were doing this with low middle, and even bottom pairs. Obviously it is board dependant, but how often would you say you are waiting till the turn on your bottom pair hands?

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #6
 

id say if im going to put a raise in with bottom pair itll be on the turn 75% of the time and on the flop the other 25%. it also varies depending on the board of course. sometimes i just call the flop and call the turn. its important to often just call the flop with these pairs because you should often be calling the flop with no pair alot as well.

when your opponent sees you calling the flop with pairs hell often checkfold the turn which allows you to pick up alot of pots when you have called the flop with nothing. if he realizes youre calling the flop with nothing alot as well as calling with pairs hell often fire another bluff on the turn and youll extract more bets with your pairs this way. playing in position against a SB stealer in this manner is a strategy that is hard to exploit. you should of course also be mixing it up with a good raising strategy that is hard to read.

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #6
 

Wow. So if you are calling this often on the flop with bottom pairs, I would imagine that you are calling even more with higher pairs. With all this flop calling, do I take it that a flop raise is somewhat rare? Or do you save that for your non pair and draw hands?

Again, I am talking pretty generally here, but I would just like to get a basic idea.

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #6
 

i fold preflop. if i am going to play this it might as well be for image so raise it.

stealthcow-

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #6
 

i mix it up alot. you cant just raise the flop with only your pairs. your flop raises should have a good balance of pairs, draws, ace high and straight bluffs. if youre just raising the flop with only some of the above then an excellent player will exploit you. im personally trying to figure out what the perfect frequency is according to game theory. from there the frequencies change depending upon what exploitable frequencies your opponent has. while you should be balancing your flop raises, he should be balancing his responses your flop raises. if he doesnt balance properly enough (ie: folding too much or not enough) then bluffraising goes up or down in value. if he doesnt balance properly enough by only 3betting strong hands then your folding frequency goes up.

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #6
 

Lately I have been experimenting with never raising the flop in position when I defend in BB. I either fold the flop or most commonly call and raise the turn with both pairs and draws and sometimes bluffs (frequencies adjusted for the opponent). More rarely I will wait until the river to raise or just call down. What do you think of this sort of approach from a game theory perspective? Am I giving up much by never giving action on the flop. In some ways it must make me unexploitable since I play every hand that I'm continuing with on the flop the same. Btw, I defend 100% in the BB unless the player's PFR/Att to steal is pretty low. I feel that all this turn raising really makes players fear to get involved with me, and exploits the two most common errors of HU opponents by getting more value from loose players and making tight players fold too often. Thoughts?

Also I should tell you that I really love these blind battle hands you've been posting and have enjoyed your comments and those of others. Very interesting and educational stuff.

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #6
 

Dane, this post sums up my recent play almost perfectly. Altho I wouldnt say I NEVER raise the flop, but maybe only 10% of hands I am going to raise in this situation. I think it definately adds a fear factor to my game and makes me sort of a pain to steal from.

-Mike

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #6
 

i think its a pretty good strategy to just wait till the turn against alot of players. honestly though i dont call the flop and semibluffraise the turn much anymore. my raises get 3bet alot because not only am i very aggressive but i do alot of bet/fold or raise/fold lines so my opponents try to capitalize on that by 3betting me alot. i think my style of play has evolved into a very aggressive style with lots of semibluffraising the flop and alot of folding when played back at with weak hands. the upside to this is that my opponents will often find themselves spewing to me as they try to move me off a hand and have trouble folding against me because i could be on a draw or a weak pair. im not saying this strategy is the best strategy or that its even a good one, but i think it works for me and utilizes my strengths. playing my draws hard against the players i play against makes them (incorrectly) call down with very weak hands so i dont have to worry too much about not getting action.

i do alot of flop raising with strong hands because i raise my draws on the flop. as a result im often 3bet and extract alot of value with my made hands. youll often see me raise the flop, get 3bet and ill cap. the opponent will checkraise the turn with an overpair, ill 3bet and hell call down. getting my money in on the flop with a draw doesnt lose that much equity and often gets me a free card while getting alot of action on my big hands.

i think when playing against semipassive players (what many here might consider to be aggressive but not overaggressive) its a good strategy to just call the flop instead of raising in most situations. it really makes it tough for the opponents to play against you out of position because they have to invest so many bets to take down the hand postflop unimproved. however, if you commonly call the flop and bet the turn (like you should) you are in an exploitable situation as you might get screwplayed alot. i really doubt this happens at the 10/20 level because not only are the players not observant enough partially because the player base is so large, they arent good enough to realize that a screwplay against your strategy is an excellent counterstrategy.

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #6
 

What is wrong with calling down and betting if checked to?

Thanks,
Cartman