what would you do?
 

15-30 at Canterbury recently. I have 45s in BB and see a free flop of 23x, one of my suit. 5 (or so) players in, it looks like a good blind flop so I bet out. One very fishy caller. I miss on the turn and river but continue to push and get called down. I announce 'nut low' and table my hand. He MUCKS! I say 'No, wait' but his cards are well mixed into the muck. He says 'I heard you say 'nuts''.

Re: what would you do?
 

This is one of those spots where you want to be a nice guy but the next time you make a mistake like that the guy keeps the pot.

Re: what would you do?
 

That's his fault for not checking out your tabled hand. You were trying to be funny and he didn't understand you...not your fault. I'd apologize but I'd keep the pot.

ScottieK

Re: what would you do?
 

I can't beleive so many people are saying keep the pot. Yes it's the guys fault for not checking the hand, but the OP's horrible angle shoot cannot be rewarded. At least chop the pot with the guy.

Re: what would you do?
 

Cards speak. Hold on to your cards until its pushed etc, etc.

Re: what would you do?
 

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horrible angle shoot

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doesn't an angle shoot require intent? this seems like a misunderstanding.

Re: what would you do?
 

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horrible angle shoot

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doesn't an angle shoot require intent? this seems like a misunderstanding.

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you shouldnt be making this "joke" at showdown for this very reason. i see it as an angle shoot. ship it to villian.

im curious how randy or al would rule if they were floor.

bwana

Re: what would you do?
 

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horrible angle shoot

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doesn't an angle shoot require intent? this seems like a misunderstanding.

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you shouldnt be making this "joke" at showdown for this very reason. i see it as an angle shoot. ship it to villian.


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i think it would be more of an angle shoot if OP didnt table his cards. OP showed his hand, and then villain mucked (if im understanding correctly). villain is stupid.

Re: what would you do?
 

it's not an angle shoot IMO but you should ship this pot to the winner ASAP

this should be obvious.

Re: what would you do?
 

Nut low is a correct term for the worst possible hand. It's a fair joke that I've used (sadly) before in games that don't have a low hand. This isn't really any different than if he'd said "I've got the nuts" before the betting round and the villian mucked. Sure, that'd be lying and we all know that deception is in no way a part of poker, but regardless of what you think of table talk, it shouldn't influence your decision to simply forfeit your hand. Villian should have held onto his cards, shown his 6 high and taken the pot. When it comes time for a showdown, it doesn't matter what the villian hears, only what is seen.

Tough lesson for villian, but one I bet he doesn't need to learn again.

Re: what would you do?
 

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Nut low is a correct term for the worst possible hand.

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ill just STFU then. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Re: what would you do?
 

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it's not an angle shoot IMO but you should ship this pot to the winner ASAP

this should be obvious.

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the winner did get the pot.

Re: what would you do?
 

He should keep the pot. People need to stop being nits about showing their cards at showdown.

Re: what would you do?
 

The MOST Honerable thing to do is to ship it all to him. Though I "rarely" if ever have seen this done when a hand is misread or played [I've had it done to me early on in my poker playing (it hasnt and will never happen again)]

With that, the next and probably best thing to do is chop it, If hes a fish especially, keep him happy a little while taking some profit with you.


Its sorta scummy to keep the whole thing, IMHO

Re: what would you do?
 

How many times have you played with fish that misread their hands? It's villans responsiblity to confirm you're not one of those fish and know what the nuts is. If he does this, in your example, he get the pot shipped to him.

We're all responsible for our own hands... ship the last hand standing the pot. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: what would you do?
 

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I can't beleive so many people are saying keep the pot. Yes it's the guys fault for not checking the hand, but the OP's horrible angle shoot cannot be rewarded. At least chop the pot with the guy.

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How is this an angle shoot? The OP said "nut low," not "nuts...... low." He correctly called his hand out.

Re: what would you do?
 

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When it comes time for a showdown, it doesn't matter what the villian hears, only what is seen.



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This isn't true. If the OP had said something blatently false, like "I've got the nuts," and this caused the opponent to fold, then the opponent would have a claim to the pot. However, in this case I would say that the opponent should get the pot, since "nut low" is not an expression which would ever be used at showdown in a serious vein, whereas "nuts" is commonly proclaimed at showdown by the winning player.

Re: what would you do?
 

who was the caller?

Re: what would you do?
 

wow did he [censored] up. that said, if you keep that pot, you will create tons of bad will which may ruin a game that is typically very juicy (aren't all canterbury games juicy? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]). I think I'd call the floor, make the floor say that the pot is legally yours, then be the "good guy" by suggesting that you chop the pot. He basiclly gets his money back, and you guys spilt up the money of the limpers.

Re: what would you do?
 

Saying "I've got the nuts" after river betting is just sort of ignorant anyway if you don't in fact have it.

Nevertheless, it is each individual player's responsibility to hold onto his or her hands until a)the player forfeits the hand by mucking (like this case) or b) see's that the pot has been won or lost.

If I've played a hand all the way past the river bet, I'm going to see at least two cards, whether those be mine or my opponents, before I get rid of my hand.

Re: what would you do?
 

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Saying "I've got the nuts" after river betting is just sort of ignorant anyway if you don't in fact have it.

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Or it can be a clever angleshot.



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Nevertheless, it is each individual player's responsibility to hold onto his or her hands until a)the player forfeits the hand by mucking (like this case) or b) see's that the pot has been won or lost.

If I've played a hand all the way past the river bet, I'm going to see at least two cards, whether those be mine or my opponents, before I get rid of my hand.

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Well, all of that is very nice, but the fact is the rules do provide for a challenge from the player who mucks his cards due to an opponent's false hand call.

Re: what would you do?
 

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the winner did get the pot.

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yep, to argue differently is to not understand the rules of poker. Villian is a moron, and Hero isn't responsible for Villian's lack of hearing ability.

Re: what would you do?
 

If it's me (in your shoes), I either chop or give the guy the entire pot. Depending on what kind of mood I'm in. I can't see myself taking the whole pot. It's Not the way I want to win in a game of cards. YMMV.

Best of Luck

Howard

Re: what would you do?
 

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horrible angle shoot

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doesn't an angle shoot require intent? this seems like a misunderstanding.

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you shouldnt be making this "joke" at showdown for this very reason. i see it as an angle shoot. ship it to villian.

im curious how randy or al would rule if they were floor.

bwana

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you didn't answer my question at all

For the record
 

I chopped the pot. My first inclination was to give up the whole pot, but it didn't seem right to give it all up to a player who didn't show his cards. Keeping it didn't fell right either since what I said, although unintentional, may have caused him to muck. Rather than hold up the game and take all night to decide I took the middle ground and asked the dealer to chop the pot, which he did.

The other player was not upset. He said it was his mistake and he didn't think he should get the pot either.

Re: what would you do?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
horrible angle shoot

[/ QUOTE ]

doesn't an angle shoot require intent? this seems like a misunderstanding.

[/ QUOTE ]

you shouldnt be making this "joke" at showdown for this very reason. i see it as an angle shoot. ship it to villian.

im curious how randy or al would rule if they were floor.

bwana

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you didn't answer my question at all

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when did my wife start posting here?

bwana

Re: what would you do?
 

I dont think it's up to you, it's up to the dealer. (and by rule I think they have to give it to you unless you want to be nice enough to ask to see his hand in which case his hand would be live)

What did you mean by nut low? A4 would of been the nut low. (if there was a 6, 7, or 8 out there) If you are going to screw around at least be accurate about it. ;-)

Re: For the record
 

Wasnt there a dealer there??

Re: what would you do?
 

Chopping it is the nice thing to do... particular if you want to keep the player at the table...

That being said, in live games, I have said (and heard people say): "nut low" or "nut no pair" many times. People should know not to muck their hands until you are sure you lost -- and if you're not sure, table your hand.

When I was at the Palms last year, there was some old guy who insisted on yelling "full house" every time he got to show down with three of a kind -- someone tried to explain to me that this was a "Chinese full house. The guy yelling "full house" was not Chinese and I had never heard that before... I think it was an angle shoot unless someone could set me straight...

Re: what would you do?
 

Unless the guy's cards were 100% identifiable, I would not give him the whole pot. However, in the spirit of keeping things friendly and because I do think the winning hand should get the pot, I would most likely offer to split* the pot with the villain. Really, though, anyone who mucks his hand just because he thinks he heard the word "nut" doesn't deserve too much sympathy.

SpaceAce
* I also believe the winning hand needs to be tabled

Re: what would you do?
 

AT least once every time I play, someone bets, I call the river, and I sit and wait for them to table their hand. If he says, nuts, nut low, two pair, aces, straight, etc., I don't say a word, I just sit there until he turns both of his cards over.

If it goes on for more than 2-3 seconds, the ppl start telling him to flip his cards. I never release my cards until I see I'm beat.

If some dummy mucks his cards without seeing what you have, after having called your river bet, that's too bad. He won't make that mistake again.

Re: what would you do?
 

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I dont think it's up to you, it's up to the dealer. (and by rule I think they have to give it to you unless you want to be nice enough to ask to see his hand in which case his hand would be live)

What did you mean by nut low? A4 would of been the nut low. (if there was a 6, 7, or 8 out there) If you are going to screw around at least be accurate about it. ;-)

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no, A-4 would not be the nut low in Hold em. They aren't playing O/8.

Nut low means worst possible hand. That is precisely what he holds on the river.

Re: what would you do?
 

I should point out that I tabled my hand *before* he mucked.

Re: what would you do?
 

Unless he is an [censored] I am giving him at least half. THe exception is if I know the person to have shot angles in the past or have seen them take advantage of a similar situation.

Re: what would you do?
 

your pot. he mucked.

Re: what would you do?
 

Just curious as to what a flop of "23x" is? Is that like a flop of 6,4, rag?

al

Re: what would you do?
 

Bob,

I agree with this and besides given the play at the 30 it is quite possible the caller also had 4-5. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: what would you do?
 

In this case 23x means I don't remember what the other flop card was. I think it was a 9 but I'm not sure.

Re: what would you do?
 

I bet the river and he called. No game is *that* good.

Re: what would you do?
 

I announce 'nut low'

Not to be a nit, but not only is your statement stupid (it's not high/low) but even if it were, you don't have the nut low. The nut low would be A4.