Agressive Villian / blocking bet on river
 

Villian seems VERY aggressive although i have very few hands with him. I'm curious what y'all think of the blocking bet on the end? Does it scream weakness?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Button ($403.75)
Hero ($290.30)
BB ($266.35)
UTG ($343.70)
MP ($150.35)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $6</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls $5, BB calls $4.

Flop: ($18) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $15</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $30</font>, UTG folds, Hero calls $15.

Turn: ($78) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets $40</font>, Hero calls $40.


River: ($158) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $50</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $190.35</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $398.35

Re: Agressive Villian / blocking bet on river
 

I'd much rather c/c the river against this type of opponent, looks like you have him beat on the turn, let him bluff this river blank.

Also, if you want to blocking bet make a real bet, like $80.

Re: Agressive Villian / blocking bet on river
 

I don't get the flop.

Re: Agressive Villian / blocking bet on river
 

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I don't get the flop.

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I decided to take a stab at the pot with what i though might be the best hand. The minraise didn't mean much to me but since i was getting 4-1, had a gutshot, a backdoor flush draw, and 2 overcards (one of which was probably live) i decided to call. What don't you get?

Re: Agressive Villian / blocking bet on river
 

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What don't you get?

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Why do you think a bet on this flop is going to shut down a very aggressive opponent.

Re: Agressive Villian / blocking bet on river
 

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Why do you think a bet on this flop is going to shut down a very aggressive opponent.

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I'm thinking maybe he didn't flop anything? This really isn't the discussion i want to get into....The fact is i want to see a turn card and i don't like check/calling.....I hated the fact that he bet but i still think i had a call. Do you disagree?

Re: Agressive Villian / blocking bet on river
 

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Why do you think a bet on this flop is going to shut down a very aggressive opponent.

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I'm thinking maybe he didn't flop anything? This really isn't the discussion i want to get into....The fact is i want to see a turn card and i don't like check/calling.....I hated the fact that he bet but i still think i had a call. Do you disagree?

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I was just curious, since I wouldn't ever lead this flop vs aggressive guy. Not saying its right or wrong.

Obvious call of his min raise.

I would check/evaluate river.

Thoughts and results
 

I figured villian most likely had a T and would check behind if i bet the river (even though he was aggressive). So i wanted to get some value from my aces. At the same time it was still possible that villian had a monster. I did not want to make a bet that would make me pot commited.

When i bet the river villian pushed instantly and i figured i had an easy fold. Wrong!!! He had 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (no hand / no draw)

I agree that i should have just check called this river (but a part of me still likes extracting more value from villian if he has a 10). Keep in mind that i had only played with villian for about 10 hands at this point and although he seemed aggressive i did not yet know he was a lunatic...

Re: Thoughts and results
 

against aggro players, dont block bet rivers at all, almost always check-call. he sees your 1/3 pot bet on the river as exactly what it is, a weak bet. he can be pushing with a lot here that you beat.

Re: Agressive Villian / blocking bet on river
 

Folding to the flop raise seems to be the easiest solution. I don't think you can expect to get paid off when you hit a one-liner to a straight, and you're not sure if you want to hit an A or a J. Villain also has position. In fact, I'm not sure why you even opted to lead into villain. The best I would ever do here is make a very loose check-call.

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Villian seems VERY aggressive although i have very few hands with him.

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He could be having a run of cards which warrants him being aggressive.

Garland

Re: Agressive Villian / blocking bet on river
 

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The minraise didn't mean much to me but since i was getting 4-1, had a gutshot, a backdoor flush draw, and 2 overcards (one of which was probably live) i decided to call.

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Limit reasoning for calling, not no-limit. Backdoors draws and overs don't mean nearly as much in no-limit.

Garland

Re: Agressive Villian / blocking bet on river
 

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Folding to the flop raise seems to be the easiest solution. I don't think you can expect to get paid off when you hit a one-liner to a straight, and you're not sure if you want to hit an A or a J. Villain also has position. In fact, I'm not sure why you even opted to lead into villain.

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The number one reason i lead the flop was because i hoped to take it down right there. I only had 2 opponents and this looks like a flop that MIGHT have missed them both. I explained why i called the minraise earlier this thread (and i think it was very marginal)....You're points are taken!

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The best I would ever do here is make a very loose check-call.


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I would NEVER check call any more than a minbet on this flop. I hate check-calling.

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He could be having a run of cards which warrants him being aggressive.

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This is very true which is why i had an easy fold.

Re: Agressive Villian / blocking bet on river
 

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I hate check-calling.

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I don't know if you mean this in a hard fast way, and I agree that most of the time you should be raising or betting. However, there are times when check-calling is correct. One of them is against very aggressive opponents or opponents who tend to bluff.

I'm not necessarily saying the flop is one of the cases for check-calling, but the river is a classic example.

Garland

Re: Thoughts and results
 

The results are still a bit unclear. Did you call and see his cards? Or did you fold, and he showed his bluff?

I'm pretty sure you folded. And if it's true, you just got some free info.

Garland

Re: Agressive Villian / blocking bet on river
 

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I don't know if you mean this in a hard fast way, and I agree that most of the time you should be raising or betting. However, there are times when check-calling is correct. One of them is against very aggressive opponents or opponents who tend to bluff.

I'm not necessarily saying the flop is one of the cases for check-calling, but the river is a classic example.


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Over the past couple of days, this has been rare. We're 100% on the same page [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

PS. I did not mean it in a hard fast way. I was talking about that particular flop.

Re: Agressive Villian / blocking bet on river
 

dont bet flop.

Re: Agressive Villian / blocking bet on river
 

LAGs make big calls because they know people don't give them credit for hands ever and expect to get played back at. I like making a big bet on this river to "represent" a busted straight draw so that he can make his big call. Or, I just check and call. Betting 30% of the pot here just serves no useful purpose in the context of this hand.

Preflop and flop is just a mess. AJ is not a hand I like to play out of position, especially if I'm not the aggressor. Having an aggressive player in the BB makes it even worse. If the flop is checked to UTG then a bet leaves you stuck right in the middle... AJs tends to flop marginal hands and draws, neither of which want to call a bet on the flop and then face a big checkraise which could mean anything... and leading hands into a LAG and a preflop aggressor is unpleasant as well. I don't get why money is going in on this flop... you have a gutshot and only one overcard which provides decent outs. If the maniac will spew if you hit something then maybe the implied odds are right to peel one off... but then you hit your card and folded the winner when the maniac spewed, so clearly that plan was no good from the start.