Warning from Party
 

I bought Poker Edge today for Poker Stars. While running party, they detected it and sent me a warning saying your account may be locked if you continue to use this... blah blah. I do not intend to use it with party, but how can I avoid trouble since it is legal on Stars?

Re: Warning from Party
 

PokerEdge isn't legal on PokerStars...

Re: Warning from Party
 

haha thanks, oh well only $10

Re: Warning from Party
 

whats pokeredge? what does it do that makes it illegal?

Re: Warning from Party
 

it's a program for people who suck at poker but play a lot of small stakes.

Re: Warning from Party
 

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it's a program for people who suck at poker but play a lot of small stakes.

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This is completely wrong and you're an idiot for even thinking it, let alone saying it.

Re: Warning from Party
 

you must be this ---> tall to participate in this thread. Face it, this program is not only against T&C but virtually useless at 6max (or any SH), which is generally accepted as the path to poker superiority. Please do me a favor and show me just ONE of the good high stakes players who uses this. Probably there is one, I just wanna know who it is.

Re: Warning from Party
 

I know at least one high stakes player who used to use PokerEdge on Party before it was banned. He's a well respected player and poster here on 2+2. I'm not naming names though.

However, PokerEdge is against the rules because it gathers hand information from all its users and stores it in a central database. It then uses this central database to share information. It's this sharing of information that Party and PokerStars are against.

On the other hand, the HUDs that don't use a centralized, shared database the sites seem to have no problems with.

Re: Warning from Party
 

pokeredge was a terrific tool for any serious player.

probably why they banned it.

Re: Warning from Party
 

hi idiot

that is all

Re: Warning from Party
 

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it's a program for people who suck at poker but play a lot of small stakes.

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This is completely wrong and you're an idiot for even thinking it, let alone saying it.

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Agreed.

Re: Warning from Party
 

All your posts are so angry. I really don't like you.

Re: Warning from Party
 

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All your posts are so angry. I really don't like you.

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Pretty much, no one on this forum does.

Edit: And he's been banned at least once on a prior name.

Re: Warning from Party
 

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hi idiot

that is all

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i laughed.

Re: Warning from Party
 

PokerEdge is Cheating in my eyes.

It gives the person info (an edge) that they cannot obtain on their own.

Re: Warning from Party
 

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PokerEdge isn't legal on PokerStars...

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Bummer, 3 months ago or so I ask PS support and it was explicitly legal software.

Re: Warning from Party
 

Party scares me with the access they have to my computer:

info@partypoker.com wrote:

Dear XXXXXX,

We are committed to detecting and preventing software programs which are designed to enable you to have an unfair advantage over other players playing at PartyPoker.com.Please refer to the following link for your perusal: (http://www.partypoker.com/about_us/u...ge_policy.html)

This message is to inform you that we have come across an instance wherein your account was involved in using such program. Please note that PartyPoker.com's Terms and Conditions strictly prohibit use of such programs and, in conjunction with our client, we request that you immediately stop using the program.

In Line with our Terms and Conditions, we have flagged your account and will continue to review your account activity and game play for use of such programs. If we detect that you continue to use such programs we will have no choice, but to bar you from our site, permanently close your account and any funds in your account will be deemed forfeited.

Regards,

Investigations Team for Poker
alerts@partypoker.com
http://www.partypoker.com

NOTE: Please do not disclose your password to any individual/organization claiming to represent or representing "PartyPoker.com".If you receive any email or phone call from anyone requesting you to provide your password please report it to us immediately. Our Customer Care Department is available 24/7 to assist you via email.

I WROTE:

I don't know why I am getting this email, but I think you are talking about pokeredge. I have it on my computer for another website, and have NEVER used it in conjunction with party. It is unfair for you to tell me I am not allowed to have certain programs on my computer if it has nothing to do with Party Poker. I apologize for my anger, but I don't think it is right for you guys to scan my hard drive when you have no business doing so, then telling me what I am and am not allowed ot have installed on my computer. I have not and never will use Poker Edge with Party Poker as I know it is prohibited. I am 100% for following the rules, but please don't jump to conclusions on me.

Re: Warning from Party
 

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hi idiot

that is all

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i laughed.

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I did too, made my morning a good one [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Warning from Party
 

I thought 3 *** got you banned.

Re: Warning from Party
 

He got banned after this post

Re: Warning from Party
 

wow if everything you say is true thats ridiculous that party can do that to you. i have pokeredge installed on my harddrive and party has never contacted me about it.

its more likely that you accidentally had pokeredge open while playing on party or that you had poker edge running and you just opened up party without playing on it. you need to be careful about that sort of thing especially since youve already been warned.

Re: Warning from Party
 

Your all a bunch of cheats using poker edge!

PT and even GT+/Ace I can live with but not sharing a central database.

Re: Warning from Party
 

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Your all a bunch of cheats using poker edge!

PT and even GT+/Ace I can live with but not sharing a central database.

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Online poker is a whole different beast. Since you are using a computer you have access to many different programs and what not. The way I see it is any smart player who wants to make money (since that's what this game is all about) will use any means necessary to help them win. If a site allows Pokeredge then I say go ahead and use it. They allow it so if you want to make money then use it to your advantage.

However, if a site does not allow it then I believe it is cheating if you somehow find a way to use it.

All sites I know of allow PT, and PokerAce, and those are great tools that I can use to my advantage, and my opponents could as well if they wanted. Therefore I will use them. If pokersites ever decide to ban these programs then it would not be fair of me to use them if I knew how to without getting caught so I wouldn't.

Re: Warning from Party
 

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Your all a bunch of cheats using poker edge!

PT and even GT+/Ace I can live with but not sharing a central database.

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Online poker is a whole different beast. Since you are using a computer you have access to many different programs and what not. The way I see it is any smart player who wants to make money (since that's what this game is all about) will use any means necessary to help them win. If a site allows Pokeredge then I say go ahead and use it. They allow it so if you want to make money then use it to your advantage.

However, if a site does not allow it then I believe it is cheating if you somehow find a way to use it.

All sites I know of allow PT, and PokerAce, and those are great tools that I can use to my advantage, and my opponents could as well if they wanted. Therefore I will use them. If pokersites ever decide to ban these programs then it would not be fair of me to use them if I knew how to without getting caught so I wouldn't.

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I agree that poker online is a different beast.

For instance I think the one player to a hand rule shouldn't apply to online play. If you want to sit there with six of your frat brothers sitting behind you discussing how to play your hand I have not problem with that. If you're gonna teach your girlfriend to play and offer he pointers while she plays online, (as long as you aren't at the same table) I have no problem with that either.

I have no opinion on pokeredge though.

--Zetack

Re: Warning from Party
 

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wow if everything you say is true thats ridiculous that party can do that to you. i have pokeredge installed on my harddrive and party has never contacted me about it.


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I'll back that up, I've only had them bug me when PokerEdge was running. I don't use it on Party any more. However, Party could easily decide having it installed is against their rules. Bogus, but they could.

However, I don't play Party period any more because I got a 2nd warning (wasn't running anything, not even PT) about using PokerProphesy which I don't own, never downloaded, never even went to their website.

Party's detection software gets false positives and I decided I wasn't willing to risk losing my bankroll due to a false positive.

Re: Warning from Party
 

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Your all a bunch of cheats using poker edge!

PT and even GT+/Ace I can live with but not sharing a central database.

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LOL, the classic "My advantage isn't cheating, but your's is" argument.

I've said before, if sites want to ban it, that's their perogative. Trying to somehow claim one method of datamining is moral while others are immoral strikes me as ludicrous.

People data mine all the time for hands they don't play. You can swap PT databases. You could set up a server to request hand histories to augment datamining.

If have 300 hands on someone via PT that's moral apparently and not worthy of banning (despite the fact I just had my system watch tables for 3 hours without me), but if I have 300 hands on someone via PokerEdge, somehow thats immoral.

Pot meet kettle.

Re: Warning from Party
 

Wow, you guys just refuse to see the "whys and what" party has a problem with.

Pokeredge is 3rd party information...in a collusionary manner.

Pokertracker is YOUR own information (obviously with the exception of file sharing with others) that you "witnessed".
All players gather information when playing on a table. Be it live B&M or online. Every hand is information. How we choose to use this information is up to us. Party as such has no problem with that. I've seen players in live games taking notes. This isnt "illegal" nor unethical. It's just smart poker. "nitty" at times maybe, but not unethical.

And PT does no good for you in data mining on Stars since unless the hands are shown with the loser showing down his hand you have incomplete information. Not completely useless for datamining but you get what I mean. Stars is being a little more protective by not allowing table watchers to see both hands when the loser doesnt show.

The basic idea with these programs and the T&C's is that you can gather your own information. They have no problem with that. But to "collude" in gathering information by using information others gathered or to share information with others is obviously and strictly forbidden.

I'm perfectly happy knowing they have access to my hard drive. I agreed to this on the T&C's when opening an acct. You know those T&C's that we never read but just check the box marked "I Accept".

I did purchase PokerEdge. I used it for months. It gave me the quick info I wanted for game selection in ring games. However, when I got the warning, I then realized since party was obviously making a very strong effort to keep the games clean I would be better off doing my own datamining, and completely uninstalled the PE software.

Kudos to Party for openly and actively doing this. Yes I lost out on $100 for my purchase of PE. Too bad. Hopefully, Stars follows suit. Too bad it aint possible for them to track whether we personally datamined PT info or imported it from someone elses PT database.

Re: Warning from Party
 

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Pokeredge is 3rd party information...in a collusionary manner.


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Collusion is making decisions by knowing cards you can't know about the hand in progress. PokerEdge (or any datamining tool for that matter) isn't remotely related to collusion.

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Pokertracker is YOUR own information


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It might be. It might you simply requested hand histories for all sorts of hands, or swapped with friends, or used a site that people can dump histories to in order to share indirectly.

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And PT does no good for you in data mining on Stars since unless the hands are shown with the loser showing down his hand you have incomplete information.


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Totally clueless statement. The most useful info is about patterns of play that have nothing to do with showdown. What's his VPIP? How often did he try to steal? All of that data is there to be had regardless of if they see showdown. Seeing the showdown hands is the least valuable thing to me about datamining.

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But to "collude" in gathering information by using information others gathered or to share information with others is obviously and strictly forbidden.


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No where does Party say you can't share hand histories.

Again, you also completely misunderstand the word collude in the context of poker. By your definition any and every hand posting to 2+2 that includes a hand history # in it is collusion as you're making that hand available in a central place. Though, party makes all hands available to anyone through HH requests anyway, so perhaps Party is colluding with everyone?

As for sharing my hand histories, it's my information, I'll share it with whoever the heck I want. Party has no say in who I can give my hand histories to. If I and a bunch of others all choose to share our hands and pay someone $10/month to host, they're our hands to share.

BTW, you'd best not ever verbally describe hands with a friend either. You'll be sharing information about opponents and thus be "colluding" and cheating.

You've picked an arbitrary spot in the large field of shades of grey to draw a line and say "this is wrong", "my way is fine". You can feel however you want about it, but that doesn't mean your position is even remotely the definitive statement on the issue.

Re: Warning from Party
 

Alright, so I get an email back from Party saying it was not because I had PE installed, but because I looked myself up on their website just for kicks. Back to PE though, I think it is kinda scammy what they do. On their website it was a warning for all the sites it is illegal at, except poker stars. I remember about two months ago when they came out with the software for Stars, theuy said they reached and agreement with stars for it to be allowed there. I don't think it is right to take someones money without telling them what you are selling them is illegeal everywhere. Besides the major edge it gives you at a donkish table, I have had nothing but problems with PE. Just finished the uninstall.....

Re: Warning from Party
 

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Alright, so I get an email back from Party saying it was not because I had PE installed, but because I looked myself up on their website just for kicks.

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Huh?

Re: Warning from Party
 

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Alright, so I get an email back from Party saying it was not because I had PE installed, but because I looked myself up on their website just for kicks.

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Huh?

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You can look up player stats on their website w/o downloading.

Re: Warning from Party
 

they track your http queries over poker-edge.com???

Re: Warning from Party
 

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they track your http queries over poker-edge.com???

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guess so

Re: Warning from Party
 

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No where does Party say you can't share hand histories.



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At the top of every emailed hand history reads:

Hello <player>,
These hand histories are provided to you solely for your personal use and as an aid for your training and development. You are not permitted to share them with anyone. We reserve the right to cease providing them or apply further restrictions at any time.

Re: Warning from Party
 

They did the same with winholdem as well. People were checking out the forums while playing and getting contacted about it.

Re: Warning from Party
 

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No where does Party say you can't share hand histories.



[/ QUOTE ]

At the top of every emailed hand history reads:

Hello <player>,
These hand histories are provided to you solely for your personal use and as an aid for your training and development. You are not permitted to share them with anyone. We reserve the right to cease providing them or apply further restrictions at any time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mike,

If you honestly don't want HHs to be shared, why not set up a graphical HH like bodog?

Re: Warning from Party
 

TStone,

Unlikely, the most common detection would be to examine the list of running processes for known "bad" process names. Next up would be a registry scan for known "bad" keys.

The packet sniffing approach is problematic on multiple levels and unlikely to be more effective than even the first listed option.

J

Re: Warning from Party
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Your all a bunch of cheats using poker edge!

PT and even GT+/Ace I can live with but not sharing a central database.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL, the classic "My advantage isn't cheating, but your's is" argument.

[/ QUOTE ]

First things first, you made an incorrect assumption that I use PT/GT+ - I dont! I was just stating I can live with other players using them aslong as their pt database is their own work and not a collective effort like PE or sharing PT databases.

Secondly sharing hand History is against the T&C's for many of the poker sites which in turn would mean that sharing PT data is also against the T&C's.

I am personally very much against Party and the other Sites allowing datamining of observed hands. What were they thinking about when they did this eh? It only promotes datamining and collabaration.

Before long (if we dont already) we are going to be facing well written bots using exstensive PT/PE data, allowing the bots to play dyamnically based on the opponent. These bots essentially have a learn mode as they can review all previous history.

IMHO Things like PE and Shared PT databases will be one of the key ingredients for a seuccessful poker bot.

I bet you'll cry when those bots come along, but at the end of the day you will have essentially encouraged it by greed.