battle of the blinds
 

Party Poker 3.00/6.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(5 handed)</font> link

BB is a typical LP donk

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4.33 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

Turn: (3.17 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

River: (5.17 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 5.17 BB.

Anyone bet the river b/c its doubtfull I have the best hand but might be able to fold other better hand

Re: battle of the blinds
 

I think you are in a spot where you must bet. Many draws missed and you got the scare card you needed. You need to invest one more. Over the long run you will show a profit, it just won't feel like since you will so often lose.

Re: battle of the blinds
 

I have been trying to fire the third barrel more often when I think it might fold out people who have been drawing. There arn't any straight draws, but there are a ton of flush draws who missed. Unfortunately, probably the only hands we are likely to fold out who we want to fold out are the Q high hands. If the K hand't hit the river, I think this would be closer. Also, if we had a lower hand, such as T9, or 98, I think a river bet would be better.

I am not sure sure about the turn bet, but I think I always do it.

Re: battle of the blinds
 

Your also forgetting hands like A7 and other Ax hands that just have 2 overcards. I benefit by folding them out too

Re: battle of the blinds
 

[ QUOTE ]
Your also forgetting hands like A7 and other Ax hands that just have 2 overcards. I benefit by folding them out too

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't forgetting them, but I just think A high calls down too much. It is true that you do get them to fold occasionally.

Re: battle of the blinds
 

I dont bet the turn, I'd C/f the river.

Re: battle of the blinds
 

wow, I also check turn against LP

Re: battle of the blinds
 

You think typical LP donk called down with queen high and is going to fold for one bet on the river? Thats the only possibility I see. If he has an ace, he is calling. If he has a pair, he is calling. I don't think he has and folds a queen often enough here in order for us to bet the river.

Re: battle of the blinds
 

[ QUOTE ]
wow, I also check turn against LP

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Wow? Does this line really shock you THAT much? I guess I must have been pretty far out of line then. Usually I'll check the turn and the river UI but I've been trying to change up my game a lil.

I bet the turn b/c the flop was all low cards so its pretty easy for him to have 2 overs and peel the flop hoping to hit his hand on the turn. A lot of times I think he call the flop and folds the turn UI.

Re: battle of the blinds
 

Yes, I was a bit shocked but from a perspective that I might do something wrong here. I bet here alot with AT and I'm C/R-ed here so often. My problem is that I think I often give up the best hand here on the turn, not that how I can win with my semi-junk UI.

But you are speaking of a LP player of course.
This is rather a two-edged sword I think. He is passive not to play back at you, but is able to fold 'decent' A and K-hi hands with possible split outs. Plus, even LP players wake up sometimes and do a random donkbluff on the river.

Re: battle of the blinds
 

A LP is almost never folding overcards/pair/OESD anywhere. Based on this and the board, how much fold equity do you have on the turn? Zero. Check.

Re: battle of the blinds
 

[ QUOTE ]
A LP is almost never folding overcards/pair/OESD anywhere. Based on this and the board, how much fold equity do you have on the turn? Zero. Check.

[/ QUOTE ]

Although I think a turn check may possibly be correct, I think it is ridiculous to claim we have no fold equity. Tons of LPs peel one on the flop with absolutely nothing and then will fold to a continuation turn bet.

Re: battle of the blinds
 

you're not folding a calling station, so nope.

Re: battle of the blinds
 

[ QUOTE ]
you're not folding a calling station

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think this is true. I do think that there are not enough hands that beat us that we are folding however. Make our hand a few cards lower, and I think this is a bet.

Plenty of LPs call both the flop and turn with nothing, yet will fold UI on the river.

Re: battle of the blinds
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you're not folding a calling station

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think this is true. I do think that there are not enough hands that beat us that we are folding however. Make our hand a few cards lower, and I think this is a bet.

Plenty of LPs call both the flop and turn with nothing, yet will fold UI on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I'm used to 1/2 where people will call to/including the river with bottom pair.

Re: battle of the blinds
 

[ QUOTE ]

Although I think a turn check may possibly be correct, I think it is ridiculous to claim we have no fold equity. Tons of LPs peel one on the flop with absolutely nothing and then will fold to a continuation turn bet.

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OK. Zero fold equity might be a bit extreme (I said might!), but firing a 2 barrel bluff with Jack hi against a LP player is a losing strategy. Check the turn. You'd be surprised how often he checks the river and you beat his T7o

Re: battle of the blinds
 

I'm not trying fold bottom pair. I'm trying to fold A high and Q high hands

Re: battle of the blinds
 

[ QUOTE ]
Check the turn. You'd be surprised how often he checks the river and you beat his T7o

[/ QUOTE ]

Those are exactly the types of hands where I want to bet the turn against. They have a decent draw and are correct to call the turn and I'm also correct in betting b/c I'm ahead on the turn.

On the river I'm not too concerned about those hands b/c I make exactly the same from checking or betting assuming they fold the river UI.

Re: battle of the blinds
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have been trying to fire the third barrel more often when I think it might fold out people who have been drawing. There arn't any straight draws, but there are a ton of flush draws who missed. Unfortunately, probably the only hands we are likely to fold out who we want to fold out are the Q high hands. If the K hand't hit the river, I think this would be closer. Also, if we had a lower hand, such as T9, or 98, I think a river bet would be better.

I am not sure sure about the turn bet, but I think I always do it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I agree. I think A-hi is calling too much here which means the only hand that we're folding here that we want to is Q-hi, Like spicy said.