Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

So I'm playing a $22. My stack is around 1500 with 100/200 blinds and bubbletime. I get a few good hands in a row and I pushed maybe 3 times in a row. Apparently one of them gets annoyed and he tells me that he's going to call me with any 2 cards next time I push. I do in fact believe him because he would look like an idiot if he didn't call. My read is that keeping his word is more important to him than winning the sng. I tell him that's fine with me.

So how good of a hand do I need to push? Clearly my pushing range should shrink if I believe him(which I do). What about when the blinds get to 150/300?

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

Turn off the chat and you don't let people bother you with their trashtalk. And i don't believe anything people say at a poker table, neither should you [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

Come on. If some guy said this, then didn't follow through with it, he would look like a huge idiot. I personally believe turning the chat off costs EV. At least for people who have the ability to use it to their advantage.

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

[ QUOTE ]
Come on. If some guy said this, then didn't follow through with it, he would look like a huge idiot

[/ QUOTE ]

fwiw, I think he really is a huge [censored] idiot anyway

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

Needs other players stack-sizes.

Btw SNGPT is really optimal for this kind of problem, since it in this case operates with 100% accuracy.

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

pwned

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

His strategy is a very good one on the bubble against thinking players (if it were inforced that he in fact call should you push). If the stacks were such that he had you covered and you had the others covered, you would basically be in a calling type (TT+ or whatever) situation. The only counter strategy is to tell him that you are calling any push that comes your way (though he would still have an edge). Being short gives you some more options, but it is something like 15% in the SB and 7% OTB.

This isn't exactly the end all to the topic. The fact that you can't push enough to keep up with the blinds (assuming he is on your left) means that you should push more then what is +$EV. You would have to start taking some -EV moves at somepoint or get killed by the blinds. You would also want to push more then what is +$EV because he might be bluffing.

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

This would not affect my range one bit.

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

[ QUOTE ]
This would not affect my range one bit.

[/ QUOTE ]
Because you don't believe him?

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

[ QUOTE ]
I personally believe turning the chat off costs EV. At least for people who have the ability to use it to their advantage.

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems villain here used the fact you have chat on to HIS advantage, isn't that so? If i don't chat at all, villian might realize i have chat turned off and can't hear his stupid little threats, therefore they have no effect.

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I personally believe turning the chat off costs EV. At least for people who have the ability to use it to their advantage.

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems villain here used the fact you have chat on to HIS advantage, isn't that so? If i don't chat at all, villian might realize i have chat turned off and can't hear his stupid little threats, therefore they have no effect.

[/ QUOTE ]
He might have used it to his advantage, but that doesn't mean ignoring it is the best move for me. I figure that the chances of the villian realizing that you don't use chat is near zero.

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

[ QUOTE ]
This would not affect my range one bit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oops sorry this post and the previous are the works of 'Deuce2High'. Just at Dave's house forgot I was logged into his name. Holla.

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

If he actually calls with any two (or at least really loosens up), it should alter your push range. Or at least I think so... just put it in SNGPT. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

Doesn't elementary game theory teach us that any cheap-talk should be ignored?

What he says he'll do is irrelevant to your decision.

Forget about what he exactly said, but do take into consideration the fact that he's upset, and loosen his calling range a bit when doing your calculations.

Notice here that we're not opening his range because he said "I'm going to call with any two," but we're doing it because we determine that he's upset and is more likely to make a loose call.

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

I've said I would call with any two a few times and then called. But I have gotten ok hands (T9s etc) so I am not sure if I would do it if I got 32o. The one condition that has to be there is that he is a solid heavy multitabler that I am bound to run into plenty of times in the future and that I am reasonably sure he is pushing close to any two. Better to be known as someone who will spitecall than someone who gives up his blind too much IMO.

I might clarify that it wasn't me Splashpot ran into, since it probably is over a month since I last did it.

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This would not affect my range one bit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oops sorry this post and the previous are the works of 'Deuce2High'. Just at Dave's house forgot I was logged into his name. Holla.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raptor lives in a "house"...I thought he lived under a Bridge?

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

[ QUOTE ]
Come on. If some guy said this, then didn't follow through with it, he would look like a huge idiot. I personally believe turning the chat off costs EV. At least for people who have the ability to use it to their advantage.

[/ QUOTE ]

What does he look like now?

I do this all the time and never follow through with it. There's no honor amung theives.

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

This is definitely +EV for him. This is basically equivalent to the $215ers who loosen up their calling ranges against regulars so they stop stealing their blinds.

It's pretty easy to use SnGPT to find out what hands to push (or ICM if you don't have it). If you don't have SnGPT and just want an answer, give stack sizes and somebody'll answer.

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

He's going to feel like an idoit when 53o gets dealt his way next hand. If it's a decent hand that would warrant a push anyway...do it. In other words, it shouldn't affect your pushing standards.

I've since turned my chat off for just this reason. Too many times I was seeing "It works every time but the last" and "somebody call this moron". It was affecting my game, so I did something about it.

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

[ QUOTE ]
Too many times I was seeing "It works every time but the last"

[/ QUOTE ]
Last time I saw this, I responded: "so they say". Later I called one of his (infrequent) all-ins and knocked him out. I said: "works every time but one." And, he went balistic.

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

It's a 22. Perfect for a spite push.

unless you are completely serious about the game.
I play for fun as well as profit. and wouldn't it be fun to drive to guy nuts?

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

i played with this guy at a 22. he said he was calling with anytwo next hand but he also said he was on the leaderboard (i think he actually was). next hand i pushed T7o from SB on the bubble and he instacalled with 93o to bust me.

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's a 22. Perfect for a spite push.

unless you are completely serious about the game.
I play for fun as well as profit. and wouldn't it be fun to drive to guy nuts?

[/ QUOTE ]

nothing is more fun than making money along with +EV pushes

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

Speaking of using it to your advantage... How do you do that? I pushed some random crapwith 5 BB when the table was still 7 handed at L6. BB woke up with AA, I struck back with the dreaded 4 card straight. As you'd expect, I was the talk of the table because I wasn't shortstack and OMG AA lost.

Problem was, I was at like 8 BB then. Still a lot of value in stealing blinds. How do you divert conversation away from "that dude pushes with crap"?

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

Those of you who are saying that this doesn't affect your range either have to argue that the guy's average calling range hasn't changed at all (There are certainly some players who tighten up here) or admit that they're not playing to maximize profits.

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

[ QUOTE ]
Those of you who are saying that this doesn't affect your range either have to argue that the guy's average calling range hasn't changed at all (There are certainly some players who tighten up here) or admit that they're not playing to maximize profits.

[/ QUOTE ]
Or that the guy's bluffing. Bluff-widening-call-range. Holy [censored], this guy just may be brilliant.

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Those of you who are saying that this doesn't affect your range either have to argue that the guy's average calling range hasn't changed at all (There are certainly some players who tighten up here) or admit that they're not playing to maximize profits.

[/ QUOTE ]
Or that the guy's bluffing. Bluff-widening-call-range. Holy [censored], this guy just may be brilliant.

[/ QUOTE ]
You're right, he could be bluffing. And against me, it worked. I tightened up my range and he benefited from it.

But is he really banking on me being a knowledgable player? Being a player who knows that I should tighten up if he's calling with any 2? For all he knows, I could be any other moron.

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

[ QUOTE ]
Come on. If some guy said this, then didn't follow through with it, he would look like a huge idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]
While this might be true in a live game, it is not true on the Internet. Who gives a [censored] about looking like an idiot on the Internet? I do it all the time. Just look at some of my previous posts for proof. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Come on. If some guy said this, then didn't follow through with it, he would look like a huge idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]
While this might be true in a live game, it is not true on the Internet. Who gives a [censored] about looking like an idiot on the Internet? I do it all the time. Just look at some of my previous posts for proof. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
So you guys all think that there is absolutely zero chance that his calling range has loosened up?? It's exactly the same as before?? Because if there is even a slight chance that his range has changed, you should change your pushing range.

So for all you saying that you wouldn't let it change your decision, you either:
A) Give zero credit to his threat. (and remember, zero credit is a very bold assumption)
or
B) Are not playing optimally.

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

Just make a note that he's a loose caller from the bb (and he is) and adjust. If I told you that I was only pushing aces, would you call with QQ if I shoved on the bubble? I'd look like an idiot if i had A9, right?

I can't believe you'd seriously let this alter your range.

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

I can't hold it in anymore, it was me. I knew you were two plus two and I knew that you would tighten up. For what it is worth, I will do this to any one who liberally steals my bb. If you are getting enough good cards to actually be value shoving, I can live with busting out as it is just normal variance.

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

I'm confused here. How exactly would the player look like an idiot if he didn't follow through with what he said? Who would look like an idiot? His avatar, his screenname, it just makes no sense [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm confused here. How exactly would the player look like an idiot if he didn't follow through with what he said? Who would look like an idiot? His avatar, his screenname, it just makes no sense [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
Look. I don't care what he looks like. My point is that I am assuming that he is an average 22 donk. My read is that an average 22 donk will follow through with this threat more often than not based on spite alone.

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm confused here. How exactly would the player look like an idiot if he didn't follow through with what he said? Who would look like an idiot? His avatar, his screenname, it just makes no sense [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
Look. I don't care what he looks like. My point is that I am assuming that he is an average 22 donk. My read is that an average 22 donk will follow through with this threat more often than not based on spite alone.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are terrible at reading your opponents if you think that I am an average 22 donk.

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

I didn't know you were serious. Are you sure it was me? This happened to me a few weeks ago, not recently.

Edit: ok maybe not a few weeks. My sense of time is eluding me.

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

people will tell me they are calling next hand no matter what, if it would be a push normally then I still make it. They just try to get you to push less because they are sick of losing blinds. By reverse logic if you push after they say this they could think you have a better hand because you were warned

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

Push your top 40% of hands.

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

yes it was you, splashpot on party. it happened early this week.

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

[ QUOTE ]
people will tell me they are calling next hand no matter what, if it would be a push normally then I still make it. They just try to get you to push less because they are sick of losing blinds. By reverse logic if you push after they say this they could think you have a better hand because you were warned

[/ QUOTE ]

not me, im stubborn.

Re: Guy tells me that he\'s going to call with any 2
 

This is too funny.