women drivers?
 

a big stereotype is women are bad drivers blagh blagh blagh.

is it a true stereotype?
is it not possible that men are just better at hand eye coordination, spacial recognition, etc..?

up until the 20s (earliest) did men not do everything that involved these traits? when cars were built, did men not build and drive them up until the 20s?

i dont think its that men are smarter or anything, its just that what they are more capable of.

thoughts?

p.s. bad example

Re: women drivers?
 

I've tabulated some mental statistics on stuff like how many times I've seen drivers turn the steering wheel in a parked position without the car moving at all, and it's something like 49-1 in favor of women. Men somehow instinctively feel that this is bad for the tires, the steering column, the whole steering mechanism etc., yet women either don't feel it, don't care, or both.

But of course insurance rates for males, especially the young'uns, are much higher than for females and I don't think that's because of prejudice. Young men tend to take more risks which is much worse for innocent bystanders than just beating the crap out of your car.

I've never let any woman drive any car of mine, nor do I intend to, but if I could choose who should be on the roads, I'd say anyone except males under 25, unless they prove they have testosterone deficiency or are very obese or something like that.

Re: women drivers?
 

basicly im asking if skills can be evolved for a specific gender of the same species

Re: women drivers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
basicly im asking if skills can be evolved for a specific gender of the same species

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, my hens don't crow if that's anywhere near where you're thinking.

Re: women drivers?
 

I think a lot of the inherent differences between men and women are related to the theory (fact?) that men hunted while women took care of kids and gathered for thousands of years during our evolution.

For example, men generally talk only when there is something to say while women tend to chit chat about anything and everything. A hunter might lose his concentration or scare away his prey by talking unnecessarily. A gatherer talks to help pass the time. Makes sense, right?

Also, men are better at thinking deeply about a single complex problem that requires concentration while women are better multi-taskers. Again, men had to concentrate to hunt while women had to multi-task.

I suppose driving a car well is more like hunting than gathering, so that could be why men are better at it.

I think it's also close to fact status that men are genetically better at math and sciences than women, and that women are better at languages.

So the short answer to your question is yes, not only can they but they already did.

Re: women drivers?
 

Tests do show that most men have better hand-eye coordination than most women (the qualifying is important) and that they also are better at spatial tasks and have better depth perception. However they also tend to have much more testosterone which causes them (esp. under 25) to take many more risks. Women tend to have many fewer accidents and are far less likely to drive drunk.

Re: women drivers?
 

Women drivers are just terrible. Whenever someones being ridiculously passive while driving to the point it obstructs traffic, or generally doing idiotic things, its always some crayzay biazatch

Re: women drivers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
basicly im asking if skills can be evolved for a specific gender of the same species

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, and there are many example of it, but it takes a longer time that the history of automobile for the phenotype to become apparent/manifest itself.

Re: women drivers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Women drivers are just terrible. Whenever someones being ridiculously passive while driving to the point it obstructs traffic, or generally doing idiotic things, its always some crayzay biazatch

[/ QUOTE ]

this thread makes me l o l

Re: women drivers?
 

There is a slight difference in hemispheric specialization between men and women, but there's so much crossover and so many exceptions that this idea is largely redundant. There's also much debate as to whether these differences are socialized.

So maybe there's a bit of something in that, but there's so many exceptions it's pretty meaningless. What'd be more interesting is talking about these differences as they apply to poker.......

Re: women drivers?
 

There was this one older lady at a full 5-10 game I was playing at a few months ago. I open AJo from middle position. She calls in the cutoff. Big blind calls.
Flop is xxJ. I bet, she calls, the big blind folds.
Turn is another random low card. I bet, she calls.
River is another piece of junk low card. I bet, she calls.

I show top pair, top kicker. She shows pocket queens. She scoops the pot.


This stuff happens all the time in live games. I generally respect the raises of the passive women players because of it.

Re: women drivers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Women drivers are just terrible. Whenever someones being ridiculously passive while driving to the point it obstructs traffic, or generally doing idiotic things, its always some crayzay biazatch

[/ QUOTE ]

1) This ridiculously passive driver hasn't been in an accident or gotten a ticket in more than fifteen years (including several years and >200k miles of urban pizza delivery). When I encounter an aggressive driver, I want to get him as far out in front of me as possible so that I have time to react to and avoid his (or her) inevitable wreck. Perhaps we have different ideas of what constitues good driving.

2) My experience indicates that teaching a woman to drive a manual transmission is a very bad idea, unless you enjoy replacing clutches.

edit: I get perverse pleasure from watching people race from one stoplight to the next, only to sit and wait for the signal, while I cruise along at the correct speed, rarely touching the brake.

edit agin: My sainted [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] mother is the exception that proves #2.

Re: women drivers?
 

Sounds like you drive like a pussy [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. It took millions of years for my sex to evolve into testosterone-crazed lunatics behind the wheel, and I'm not going to let it go to waste [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]. Might I also add that man's superior rexflexes offsets his excessive speed; while we may create a good many accidents, we narrowly avoid a great many more.

Re: women drivers?
 

Nah, you probably just drive like an [censored] and make the roads more dangerous for everyone else.

Driving 90mph rather than 80mph over 100m saves you 8 minutes.

Few things irritate me more than having some idiot whip there car in front of me only to get caught at the red light ahead of us. Congratulations on saving yourself .05s.

Re: women drivers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's also close to fact status that men are genetically better at math and sciences than women, and that women are better at languages.

[/ QUOTE ]

This has been proven empirically to be very wrong - it's essentially a lingering old-wives' tail. The reality is that men are more likely to be pushed towards math and sciences then women, and thus are more likely to experience success in these fields, but there is no statistically significant inherent biological difference.

With that said, women are horrible f'ing drivers. I have no idea why, lol.

Re: women drivers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
This has been proven empirically to be very wrong

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you point me to some proof? My experience says otherwise. I tought a university level math class for 6 years and my students all came from families which pushed kids (boys and girls alike) to do well in math. In Hungary it's the only way to get accepted to the better schools, except if you're a super-genius.

Still, the boys grasped everything much faster, thought for themselves more, were more creative, while the girls tended to look for patterns, use their memory and tried to relate new problems to previous ones they've seen.

The grades in the end were about equal because what the girls were lacking in ability they made up in effort, but just like with driving, the girls had to force it and concentrate harder while it came much more naturally for the boys.

If the studies that "prove" equal abilities focus only on the grades, then they are missing some important elements in the picture, just like studies that "prove" that women are not inferior drivers focus on stuff like accident stats.

Re: women drivers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think it's also close to fact status that men are genetically better at math and sciences than women, and that women are better at languages.

[/ QUOTE ]

This has been proven empirically to be very wrong - it's essentially a lingering old-wives' tail. The reality is that men are more likely to be pushed towards math and sciences then women, and thus are more likely to experience success in these fields, but there is no statistically significant inherent biological difference.

With that said, women are horrible f'ing drivers. I have no idea why, lol.

[/ QUOTE ]

As a general tendency, its correct. Not an absolute for all individuals, but on a larger scale, yes.



Anyways to the passive drivers: Im not saying that you should be an extremely-aggro drive (ie jackrabbitting between lights, cutting in and out of lanes to get seconds ahead), its just that when certain others have somewhere to go, they dont want some daydreaming pylons doing ridiculous things.

Re: women drivers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This has been proven empirically to be very wrong

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you point me to some proof? My experience says otherwise. I tought a university level math class for 6 years and my students all came from families which pushed kids (boys and girls alike) to do well in math. In Hungary it's the only way to get accepted to the better schools, except if you're a super-genius.

Still, the boys grasped everything much faster, thought for themselves more, were more creative, while the girls tended to look for patterns, use their memory and tried to relate new problems to previous ones they've seen.

The grades in the end were about equal because what the girls were lacking in ability they made up in effort, but just like with driving, the girls had to force it and concentrate harder while it came much more naturally for the boys.

If the studies that "prove" equal abilities focus only on the grades, then they are missing some important elements in the picture, just like studies that "prove" that women are not inferior drivers focus on stuff like accident stats.

[/ QUOTE ]

Check this out - you'll need access to JSTOR or you can trek to a library to check it out:



1.
Sex-Related Differences in Mathematics Achievement, Spatial Visualization and Affective Factors

Elizabeth Fennema; Julia Sherman

American Educational Research Journal, Vol. 14, No. 1. (Winter, 1977), pp. 51-71.

Stable URL: http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=000...t;2.0.CO%3B2-7

Abstract: This study investigated (a) mathematics achievement (Test of Academic Progress) of 589 female and 644 male, predominantly white, 9th-12th grade students enrolled in mathematics courses from four schools, controlling for mathematics background and general ability (Quick Word Test); (b) relationships to mathematics achievement, and to sex-related differences in mathematics achievement, of spatial visualization (Differential Aptitude Test), eight attitudes measured by the Fennema-Sherman Mathematics Attitudes Scales, a measure of Mathematics Activities outside of school, and number of Mathematics Related Courses and Space Related Courses taken. Complex results were obtained. Few sex-related cognitive differences but many attitudinal differences were found. Analyses of variance, covariance, correlation, and principal components analysis techniques were used. The results showed important relationships between socio-cultural factors and sex-related cognitive differences.

I'm sure I could find you several more studies, but it's late and I've got stuff to do. Maybe tomorrow.