Collusion... or just the work of Granny Mae
 

So one of my students posted this hand the other day with subject "I've never lost 12 bb in one hand before [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]"

Converted w/ PonksSaver: http://www.pokermentor.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=510
- - - HAND 3164881158 - - -
PreFlop: HERO is BB with Kd Kh (10 Players)
3 folds, MP raises, 1 fold, MP3 calls, CO raises, 2 folds, HERO raises, MP calls, MP3 calls, CO calls,

Flop: (8.25 SB) 3d 7s 6c (4 Players)
HERO bets, MP raises, MP3 folds, CO raises, HERO raises, MP calls, CO calls,

Turn: (14.25 BB) 3d 7s 6c Js (3 Players)
HERO bets, MP raises, CO raises, HERO calls, MP raises, CO calls, HERO calls,

River: (26.25 BB) 3d 7s 6c Js Qc (3 Players)
HERO checks, MP bets, CO raises, HERO calls, MP raises, CO raises, HERO calls, MP calls,

Final Pot: 38.25 BB

Results below:
CO has Ah As (a pair of aces).
MP doesn't show [ Qs, 5s ] a pair of queens.
Outcome: CO wins 38.25 BB.




I'm like buddy, you know they were colluding against you that hand right? Q/5s capped preflop, and then still raising on the turn, with the other guy having A/A. I thought it was pretty obvious atleast.. until my partner, Ponks, comments

"Does seem a bit like colluding. Although Q5s is called the GrannyMae hand (2+2 thing). The startegy with Q5s is to raise non-stop.

Ponkers"

I thought he was pulling my leg, but assures me its true!


so what do you guys think collusion or Granny Mae?

Re: Collusion... or just the work of Granny Mae
 

woo

Re: Collusion... or just the work of Granny Mae
 

lol

Re: Collusion... or just the work of Granny Mae
 

[ QUOTE ]
woo

[/ QUOTE ]

What she said...

Re: Collusion... or just the work of Granny Mae
 

Sounds like a typical Paradise hand lately to me. I have $400 in uncleard bonus stacked up there I am clearing now and my lord - the play there at times is horrific. A drunk monkey could make money playing against the idiots who play there. I think I'll even play there after my bonus clears, and we all know it's a sin to play without bonus or RB, but man these Paradise players are just stunning.

Re: Collusion... or just the work of Granny Mae
 

What limit was this? What reads did he have on the Q5 guy? If it was a $2/$4 maniac, it's fine. If it was an otherwise tight %15/$30 player, it was collusion.
-Sam

Re: Collusion... or just the work of Granny Mae
 

How about option 4: over-aggressive, not particularly good player?

Preflop: Folds to him in mid-position, raises to steal the blinds, then calls the raises that come behind him.

Flop: Tries to press his bluff, representing strength by raising preflop capper, then calls the raises behind him because the pot has gotten so big.

Turn: Picks up a flush draw in addition to his gutshot and raises to get more money in the pot.

River: Makes top pair and overvalues his hand.

Re: Collusion... or just the work of Granny Mae
 

Once again, a GM thread proves who the real animals of the Z00 are.

Re: Collusion... or just the work of Granny Mae
 

hero loses to JJ, QQ, AA but still calls caps on river?

Re: Collusion... or just the work of Granny Mae
 

But... that's not a real Granny Mae hand because if it was, the Q5 would have won. That's the whole point of raising every hand, so you can win more, NOT so you can lose more. Does everyone see why?

So I'm voting collusion by elimination.

Re: Collusion... or just the work of Granny Mae
 

[ QUOTE ]
Sounds like a typical Paradise hand lately to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Collusion... or just the work of Granny Mae
 

What about another option?... A perfect poker playing bot with Granny Mae code written in. I mean, that's the way you're supposed to play that hand, right? But then again, I don't know; I'm a donk myself!!!

Re: Collusion... or just the work of Granny Mae
 

Who knows for sure? But notice that the "collusion" started preflop. Then look what happens to the GrannyMae:

1. Flops a gutshot.
2. Turns a flush draw.
3. Rivers top pair.

If this is collusion then how likely is it that the one hand you witnessed features so much improvement for the trash hand? On the other hand, this type of hand progression is common when a borderline maniac goes completely bonkers. Each new draw just fuels the madness.

The AA looks overplayed but may be reasonable considering that:

1. He may know from experience that MP does things like this.
2. He may have a solid read that Hero cannot beat him on this board unless he picked up a late set.

Re: Collusion... or just the work of Granny Mae
 

What stakes is this? and how long were you playing with MP for? He's most likely just a maniac. I don't understand the point of a colluder showing down their junk hands

Today i sat at a 2/4 table with someone similar. If he entered the pot he was constantly raising, no matter what he had. It took a few hands for people to figure out what he was doing. (everyone folded the first few times, and the ones that went to showdown he just happened to have big hands) Some other 2+2er and I busted him out of his 250 stack in like 30 minutes capping hands like middle pair and top pair no kicker, and calling down with ace high. The pots were always 15BB or more. He busted and went to 3/6, I followed, he went on a hot streak then almost busted again and left. I found him at 5/10, a stake i never play but decided to sit with this guy. Unfortunately he caught a big hand against me and I ended up 100 dollars down on him and a little sour I didn't have a bankroll for 5/10. I don't think this is collusion, and Stellar makes a good point on the development of the hand. I think it's just a donk, an overplayed AA(unless the CO knew MP) and a crying call from the kings.