Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

Well?

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

No...wait, yes!

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

I love this forum. :/

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

I did and I suck at NL, so there you go.

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Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

Yeah, and a fair bit at that.

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

Yes and its probably the best way for a beginner to get their feet wet.

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

yes - consistently. whenever i'm in another game i'll open up an NL cash table and play Miller's SS game and win some extra cash. it's not exciting but its easy and profitable.

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

What size game are you all playing and winning at? (25NL, 50NL, etc.)

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yes...wait, no!...wait, yes!

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

Works just fine on the Party 600 games.

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

good to hear.

I guess the next question would be, what kind of win rate is everyone having?

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

I got around 3PTBB/100, with a standard deviation somewhere in the 15-17PTBB/100 range. (Which is amazing, as it looks just like good-great limit stats.) I don't have that PT database here, so I am shooting numbers from memory, but it should be fairly close.

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

Yes, but if you played with a full stack, you should be able to reach at least double that number.

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

Yeah, but then he'd have to think and actually "play" poker [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

I tried it, ran at about 4-5PTBB over 5k hands, got very bored and went back to playing limit.

Mat

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I tried it, ran at about 4-5PTBB over 5k hands, got very bored and went back to playing limit.

Mat

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, it does feel like playing poker while comatose. Regardless...

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, but if you played with a full stack, you should be able to reach at least double that number.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't 16 table with a deep stack. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Heck, I can't even 8-table with a deep stack, so for me it'd be a loss.

To be perfectly honest I am hard pressed to 4-table with a deep stack. Which means don't play all that much cash game NL, as I make a significantly better hourly wage playing limit, due to it being easier to multitable without starting to do really, really stupid things.

And yes, as others have pointed out, playing SSS is about the most boring exercise ever devised by man.

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

"Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?"


I read that Ed Miller has.

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

And on a more serious note, Ed relayed the story in an earlier thread that when Bill Robertie read the book he "immediately called Dan Harrington to ask if the short stack system actually works". Dan said, "Works? That's the strategy I used my first six months playing no-limit."

But what does Mr. Harrington know. It's not like he's ever won anything. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

This thread has me interested. I thought I played the system pretty well, but my stats pale in comparison to the ones posted. Can we get a little better sample size to see the success of this system?

Here are my numbers, and I would appreciate it if others posted their's as well. I wonder if I am doing something differently than the rest of you.

$25NL Party, $1.24/100, $15.44 SD/100, (more than 12-tabling) 268,483 hands.

My winning confidence is 100%, and currently, with a $400 BR, I have a 1.57% ROR.

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

I've almost 25K hands (3) tables @ a time. $50 NL.
$1.50/100 EV. $25/100 SD. My sample size is quite small compared to yours. I stray sometimes a little, which could account for my small win.

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

NL25 is .10/.25 blinds right?

So you're at 5BB/100 I think which looks pretty good to me.. (unless p-tracker does the NL BB thing differently which I think they might...I haven't played much NL).

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

I thought PT's BB is Big Bets, not Big Blinds.

PTBB = 2xBig Blind if I recall correctly.

I could be wrong.

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

GG is correct, so SuitedSixes is at just under 2.5BB/100.

I don't have the database around, but I was at 3BB/100 and a SD somewhere around 16BB/100 over something like 40-50k hands at the 400-600 games on Party.

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

Yeah...I thought it was done that way but didn't remember.

2.5BB/100 doesn't seem too far off from the 3BB/100 that others have reported.

Just hit a couple of lucky big-blind monsters in there for big pots and that can pretty easily explain the small difference.

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

[ QUOTE ]
GG is correct, so SuitedSixes is at just under 2.5BB/100.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am sure this has been covered other places, but the search function . . . you know: PT has the same BB size for Party $25 and $50 NL.

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah...I thought it was done that way but didn't remember.

2.5BB/100 doesn't seem too far off from the 3BB/100 that others have reported.

Just hit a couple of lucky big-blind monsters in there for big pots and that can pretty easily explain the small difference.

[/ QUOTE ]

The biggest adjustment I have decided to make is to buy in for enough that it is profitable for me to play pocket pairs for set value against a raise.

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

Ok i used the wonderful search engine on here and not finding it. Could someone give me a brief explanation and or link please to waht Miller's Short Stack is.

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

It's in his book "Getting Started in Hold Em" which is mainly a beginners book but has a cool section about starting off in No Limit and playing with a short stack. Because of stack size and pot odds you almost can't lose long term with the system.

It's pretty cheap ($12.21) right now at amazon.

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, but if you played with a full stack, you should be able to reach at least double that number.

[/ QUOTE ]

not true, do you see why?

I will let others elaborate.

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

If you are playing against suckers, it works. I wont give a guy with a short stack any action without a hand that is a favorite against his range of hands.

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

Players with deeper stack skills can still use this system to buy in short, be perceived as a fish, observe other players, and switch gears as they build a stack.

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

Ok so is this system the same as was in last months all in? The one where U buy in short and simply push all in with AK, AA, KK, QQ? You play no other hands. It was in the article on Jim Rose he said he made 27 dollars an hour and Chris Ferguson had also done it for over a year and turned a dollar into 20 thousand. I'm quoting this from memory so feelfree to correct.

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I wont give a guy with a short stack any action without a hand that is a favorite against his range of hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you fold all hands except AA-QQ (even folding AKs) if a competent short stack is in the pot no matter how many fish are also in the pot???

You can play optimally against the fish, or against the shortstack. But you can't do both at once. For a deep stack at a table with deep stack fish the situation quite often plays out such that you are forced to pay the short stack for the privilege of robbing the fish.

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ok so is this system the same as was in last months all in? The one where U buy in short and simply push all in with AK, AA, KK, QQ? You play no other hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

If those are the only hands you play using this system, then no it is not the same as Miller's SS system in GSIH.

It certainly sounds like a similar idea though.

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

I have done research and it turns out that this strategy needs a fair bit of 'tweaking' to get it to work. It also leaves you hopeless in the blinds.....

Tried it for about 5k hands and lost $140.

Margon

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have done research and it turns out that this strategy needs a fair bit of 'tweaking' to get it to work. It also leaves you hopeless in the blinds.....

Tried it for about 5k hands and lost $140.

Margon

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know what research you have done, buy from my experience, in 5k hands, as a winning player you can expect a range of -$156 to $280.39. {insert sample size point here}

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

Fair enough....

I was a limit player and there the expectation is that a 300BB downswing is about the max that you should ever see (if you are playing winning poker), the $140 downswing is 280BB....

I guess the standard diviation for NL makes the expected downswings larger....

Margon

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I was a limit player and there the expectation is that a 300BB downswing is about the max that you should ever see (if you are playing winning poker)

[/ QUOTE ]

No it isn't. The expectation is that someone who is crushing his game and starts with a 300BB bankroll and never withdraws any money at all only has a ~1% chance of busting out.

You'll see bigger downswings than 300BB every few hundred thousand hands. Don't worry.

Re: Has anyone won with Miller Short Stack?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I guess the next question would be, what kind of win rate is everyone having?

[/ QUOTE ]

$25NL table.

Hero is on the button with JJ and $5.
Villain (~$20 stack) limps from UTG.
Hero bets $1.50, Villain calls, everyone else folds.
Flop is KKK.
Villain checks, Hero goes all-in, Villain calls...with 92o.

So the answer to your question is, a pretty good win rate. But I can definitely see where the "deep stacks make even more money" people are coming from.