Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

"If you play a lot of poker, you realize that the better players play a lot of hands and they take chances,'' Ivey says. "The players that don't do as well are just sitting there folding every hand and not taking chances. I'm playing against the best players in the world day in and day out, so you can't just sit there and play only good hands all the time. You've got to take some chances and know when you're beat and know how to get certain advantages."

He said this in an article on espn.com where he discusses how he finds the ultra-high stakes $4k-$8k cash game at the Bellagio more fun and rewarding than tournaments.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/poker...amp;id=2252232

I realize he's referring to a game that's very different from the 1/2 game at Party, but still...it was a surprising quote to me. Thoughts?

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

The pros at 4-8k are better (or at least richer) than any player you're going to find at any normal poker table. Nobodys a donk, so natrually to survive it would seem you're going to have to drastically change your style of play and keep your opponents guessing which is what I think he's talking about.

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

To me it makes sense. Everytime you realize that the table is pretty equal in skill this mindset is necessary. If you're a chicken, you change table. Personally I love playing against tough opponents and find a way to first learn them and then probably beat them.
But I'm just a passing low limit newbie, what could I know?

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

[ QUOTE ]
"If you play a lot of poker, you realize that the better players play a lot of hands and they take chances,'' Ivey says. "The players that don't do as well are just sitting there folding every hand and not taking chances. I'm playing against the best players in the world day in and day out, so you can't just sit there and play only good hands all the time. You've got to take some chances and know when you're beat and know how to get certain advantages."

He said this in an article on espn.com where he discusses how he finds the ultra-high stakes $4k-$8k cash game at the Bellagio more fun and rewarding than tournaments.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/poker...amp;id=2252232

I realize he's referring to a game that's very different from the 1/2 game at Party, but still...it was a surprising quote to me. Thoughts?

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Not that suprising. I'm guessing the pool of players at that level is rather small so you're playing against many of the same players alot. Lower levels, especially online, there's a huge turnover so you don't have to worry as much about changing it up.

b

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

There are two reasons why it is right to play more hands in games against tougher opponents.

1) The tighter a game, the greater the chance to take down a pot with a bet. As your folding equity increases, more hands become playable. (Note that this does not apply in a typical low limit game where players go much too far with their weaker hands.)

2) The FTOP tells us that how well we and our opponents do is based on how closely decisions mirror those that would be made if the other player's cards could be seen. The more hands we play, the harder it is for our opponent to distinguish between the possible hands we can have. This increases the likelihood we can induce our opponent to make a FTOP mistake. (Note that the opposition has to be good enough to read hands before this is applicable.)

A key thing to note in the tough games is that it can be sometimes correct to play a hand that is slightly -EV if it increases the EV of your future +EV hands enough to offset what you are giving up on that hand. Of course, that doesn't mean openraising with 72o UTG is a good idea, nor is routinely 3-betting middle position raises with small suited connectors.

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

Not surprising at all. At most levels of poker, you make the lion's share of your profit from your opponents' mistakes. At the level he plays, there aren't that many basic mistakes being made, so he has to mix it up.

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

At this level of play, hand reading skills are paid a premium. Experts simply don't worry about domination as they are more aware of their opponents style and range of hands. They also tend to play shorthanded and even at full tables you won't see too many 5 way pots.

If you try to play this way at small or middle limits before your abilities and experience catch up, you'll find yourself broke.

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

For the 4/8K game, the maximum buyin is what? 800K?

So a really horrible night at the table would mean a loss 3 or 4 million?

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

Anyone know how Phil Ivey does online? I would think a major part of being able to play that style in the big cash games is being able to read people...not as easy online.

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

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So a really horrible night at the table would mean a loss 3 or 4 million?

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Daniel Negreanu lost a million at one of these games in one sitting, and the other players refered to losing $1,000,000 a night for the first time as having your "cherry" broken. Crazy. Big losses like this must be pretty typical. I wonder if Moneymaker ever tried the $4k/$8k game? Somehow I doubt it.

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

I think this is what they mean when pros say that high stakes poker relies more on luck than low stakes games.

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

Ivey quotes are just Ivey quotes, no content whatsoever. You will never get any piece of useful information out of this guy.

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

Pretty simple. Weak calling station opponents think on one level. You can't bluff them, fancy play them, or move them off of a pair of aces with a king kicker. Optimat strategy is often best. As you go up the ladder and encounter tougher and tougher opponents you have to be UNpredictable in what and how you play. I know, with time, I can nail a weak opponent on how he plays and take advantage of it and I SUCK at poker in comparison to the pros. They can pick you apart so easily its sick.

You can't play like Phil in tournaments locally. The players are too simple and think on a one plain field. Thats we he comments so much about being bored the 1st few days. Probably Phils best opponents are those that think 2-3 levels higher than the simple fish. He now outthinks them and out plays them.

I would love to play the player in the tournaments I play in. But I can't. They are too simple. So in live tournaments I play tight till the final table. Now I play my opponents and alter from TAG to... well something looser. And it pays off. But thats because most of the players at the final table are a couple levels below my thinking or at my thinking. So moves can be made.

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

I just want 1 million please.

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

If I won what money make does I still try to move up slowly. There is no fricken way I'd risk that much money. I rememver when I started I plopped $200 in Party after reading a few books. If I lost it I would know I was too stupid to play poker and that would be it.

Well I'm still here and still have that $200.

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

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If you try to play this way at small or middle limits before your abilities and experience catch up, you'll find yourself broke.

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Yup

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

I disagree. These players are not making money off of themselves (the pros). They are making money off of rich guys that don't play nearly as well as they do.

People that are infinitly rich have conquered all in life. They have so much control over everything around them it gets boring. So the challenges they take are higher risk.

Learning to fly, skydive, mountain climb... all dangerous activities on to themselves if you don't know what you are doing, some gamble. With gambling they have NO control over games like craps or blackjack. The money means nothing to them. Its beating the house. In poker its beating the players. They don't want a game with easy chumps they can beat. They want games with the BEST so they can say the BEAT the best. They are usually power driven personalities, for the most part. They want and need greater challenges than they can control. So the pros play these guys and thats where they make their money, not off of each other. The millionaires might be good, bad, or whatever but they don't care about their money. They got soooo much. Some of you might not believe me but lets take an example down to our level.

All of you average people own cars ranging from new to beat up. Now think about if for one day a year you can pick any car you want to drive for that day. That would be something cool and interesting.

Now imaging if you can pick any car to drive anyday anytime you want like magic. Well eventually it will not be exciting. You can translate that to women too [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Same thing for these super millionaires. Everyone bows to their wishes, their money buys whatever they want... where's the challenge. They find things that can be a challenge. Beating the world's best poker player is a challenge.

Look at us. I know that if I go to a table and all the stats on the players are in the red (I set my colors that way) then I go to another table. I like poker, but I like to win. Why do I want to struggle at 0.5 BB/100 saying "Oh I beat TAG so and so...". Screw that, I want suckers at my table so I cna make money. A couple TAGs fine, but I don't want to play them. Why should the pros be any different if they are making money for a living.

Now if they have more money than god then well I can see playing the best in the world if the money matter's not. Now its not a challenge its pretige.

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

I know I feel blind at times online. Live is much better for me.

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

Daniel Negreanu lost a million at one of these games in one sitting, and the other players refered to losing $1,000,000 a night for the first time as having your "cherry" broken. Crazy. Big losses like this must be pretty typical. I wonder if Moneymaker ever tried the $4k/$8k game? Somehow I doubt it.

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Actually for a brief stint Moneymaker dominated table one shortly after his WSOP victory. He no longer plays there because the rest of the players were afraid to play against him.
[img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

I'm sure thats why he no longer plays there...everyone was just too afraid of him.

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

In $4k/8k, $1m would be 125 big bets. That is an unbelievably brutal beating. It's a bankroll buster. I've never lost 125 BB in a session in <i>any</i> limit I've ever played, and I have had some major spells of running bad. Even bad players have to work very hard to blow off this much.

If Negreanu went off for this much, he must have either have been steaming, or he might have been playing shorthanded. Even shorthanded, this is a major butt whooping.

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

I've lost $250 at the $2/$4 tables in about 3 hours. Wasn't tough at all. Of course this was before I knew anything about poker. But still the point is I was a *bad* player and I could have easily lost > $400 in an 8 hour session.

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

Barry Greenstein mentions that he has sat in a highstakes game with Gus Hansen and seen him lose 1.000.000$ and then win it back during a session .. not once, but three times

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

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For the 4/8K game, the maximum buyin is what? 800K?

So a really horrible night at the table would mean a loss 3 or 4 million?

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why would there be a maximum buyin in a limit game?

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

It looks from the posts that this $4k-$8k game is a limit game. If this is the 'big' game where all the pros play against each other once a week, then I wonder why they choose to play limit over no-limit.

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

[ QUOTE ]
In $4k/8k, $1m would be 125 big bets. That is an unbelievably brutal beating. It's a bankroll buster. I've never lost 125 BB in a session in <i>any</i> limit I've ever played, and I have had some major spells of running bad. Even bad players have to work very hard to blow off this much.

If Negreanu went off for this much, he must have either have been steaming, or he might have been playing shorthanded. Even shorthanded, this is a major butt whooping.

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The big game is quite often short handed, and they also mix in some NL games in addition to PLO.

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

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I'm sure thats why he no longer plays there...everyone was just too afraid of him.

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While Moneymaker seems to be a substantial underdog at this game, I assume that better players shouldn't try it either. It is rather obvious that Doyle, Chip & Co. are partners sitting there all day long waiting to trap someone.

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

Pretty sure he had a bet w/ Barry Greenstein on how much he could make and he made like 100k in less then a month or a couple of weeks or something like that. Wouldn't be surprised, anytime I have seen him online he has been killing it.

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

What you have to remember is that in the "Big Game" that Ivey plays in you HAVE to outplay your opponents to win chips. In the games most of us play in you can sit back and capitalize on our opponents mistakes. Playing bad starting hands makes it easier to deceive opponents when the low cards catch the flops.

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

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The big game is quite often short handed, and they also mix in some NL games in addition to PLO.

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typically H.O.S.E. or H.O.R.S.E. (all limit 4k/8k)+ 2-7 t.draw (played no limit, with a max of 100,000 per player in the pot) + NLHE (same max) + PLOhigh
also sometimes with chinese poker at 1k per point i guess. . .
one rotation of each game. . .

or so i've heard, of course i dont play in that game.

B

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

The pros are terrified of two people: Aaron Kanter and Chris Moneymaker. If you watched ESPN you'd know why.

Can't you see it, Moneymaker or Kanter sits in at the big game and takes everybody's money by continously winning despite never having over a 30% chance on the flop. Everyone at the table commits suicide as those two hit runner runner every hand [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

Well, OK...mixing in NL games in rotation is a completely different animal.

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

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Pretty sure he had a bet w/ Barry Greenstein on how much he could make and he made like 100k in less then a month or a couple of weeks or something like that. Wouldn't be surprised, anytime I have seen him online he has been killing it.

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I would love to read more about it. Any idea where I can find it?

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

I really enjoyed this quote...

I've been around Michael Jordan for a lot of years, and I know that when people play golf with him, they always ask if he wants to put some money on the match. Well, yeah, of course Jordan wants to put money on it. That's what he lives for. So the other players will ask, "How much do you want to play for?'' and Jordan's stock answer is, "Whatever amount makes you nervous.''

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

I think it may have been in a response from barryg1 himself on here about something. Not 100% sure though.

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

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Playing bad starting hands makes it easier to deceive opponents when the low cards catch the flops.

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This belongs in a fortune cookie.

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

The original poster was referring to NL and you were referring to limit. Apples and Oranges

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

phil ivey's postflop play is surreal, thats why he is able to profit from taking "preflop chances"
think about it..
would you play 87s against AA for a small raise if you could be sure or nearly so that he held AA?
I would... players like ivey love implied odds...

Re: Interesting Phil Ivey quote
 

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phil ivey's postflop play is surreal, thats why he is able to profit from taking "preflop chances"
think about it..
would you play 87s against AA for a small raise if you could be sure or nearly so that he held AA?
I would... good players love implied odds...

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