Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

There is only one rule in war. There are no rules.

Stop taking prisoners. Shoot them on the battlefield. As a former USAF member I vowed I would never be captured. In the Middle East during the first Gulf War I told myself I would rather die fighting than be captured. I am sure at least 99% of U.S. military members think the same way.

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

Seriously? Just shoot everyone instead of taking prisoners. I do not see how that would do anything but result in more dead Americans, either there or here.

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

[ QUOTE ]
There is only one rule in war. There are no rules.

Stop taking prisoners. Shoot them on the battlefield. As a former USAF member I vowed I would never be captured. In the Middle East during the first Gulf War I told myself I would rather die fighting than be captured. I am sure at least 99% of U.S. military members think the same way.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think it's +ev to take prisoners. Especially in the type of war that we're in.

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

Yeah this probably good since history has taught us that POWs never make it out and never go on to lead successful lives. Oh wait.

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

Wow. I suddenly feel stupider reading this post. Gives me a better understanding of how Idiot Boy Bush got elected.

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

[ QUOTE ]
Stop taking prisoners. Shoot them on the battlefield.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Please, Cola! Please develop some sort of * rule!


[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

When you have sunk so deep, no reason to stop digging. Go on!

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

So do you shoot them as they come walking towards you with waving white flags with their hands in the air? Or do you make them dig their own graves first, then shoot them in the back of the head?

Of course, once your enemies realize that you aren't taking prisoners, they'll inevitably end up always fighting maniacally to the death...which will result in many more casualties on *both* sides. Not to mention the fact that your enemies won't show any mercy towards your soldiers when soldiers on your side are captured.

Oh, and I'm calling BS on you ever being part of the USAF. The Luftwaffe maybe.

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

[ QUOTE ]
There is only one rule in war. There are no rules.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is not actually correct. See, for example, the Geneva Conventions.

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

[ QUOTE ]
There is only one rule in war. There are no rules.


[/ QUOTE ]

When are you going to realize the reason you have lost this war is because you broke the rules? Your rulebreaking caused you to lose support of those who would be able to win this war as you never were and never will be able to win alone.

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is only one rule in war. There are no rules.


[/ QUOTE ]

When are you going to realize the reason you have lost this war is because you broke the rules? Your rulebreaking caused you to lose support of those who would be able to win this war as you never were and never will be able to win alone.

[/ QUOTE ]

Some allies we've got, huh?

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

[ QUOTE ]
There is only one rule in war. There are no rules.

Stop taking prisoners. Shoot them on the battlefield. As a former USAF member I vowed I would never be captured. In the Middle East during the first Gulf War I told myself I would rather die fighting than be captured. I am sure at least 99% of U.S. military members think the same way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you for another horrible post. Im glad to see that we have such sane people in the armed forces.

99% of the military would rather be blown away instead of living? Wow, that is exactly the opposite idea of almost every war novel and documentary Ive ever read.

FYI: Che (the evil communist guy most people hate) greatly supported the takin gof prisioners. I know hes evil and all, but his line of thought was let the soldiers surrender and then release them and soon you will barely have to fight, the enemy will just surrended rather thean be killed. Such an evil man he was.

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

My how nieve you are. Winning the war isn't everything, it is the only thing. You do what is required to win. ANYONE who dosen't understand that is kidding themselves.

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

"FYI: Che (the evil communist guy most people hate) greatly supported the takin gof prisioners. I know hes evil and all, but his line of thought was let the soldiers surrender and then release them and soon you will barely have to fight, the enemy will just surrended rather thean be killed. Such an evil man he was."

What does this prove?

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

[ QUOTE ]
My how nieve you are. Winning the war isn't everything, it is the only thing. You do what is required to win. ANYONE who dosen't understand that is kidding themselves.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but such afterthoughts as "public diplomacy" and "not ruining everything America stands for" also apply.

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

[ QUOTE ]
"FYI: Che (the evil communist guy most people hate) greatly supported the takin gof prisioners. I know hes evil and all, but his line of thought was let the soldiers surrender and then release them and soon you will barely have to fight, the enemy will just surrended rather thean be killed. Such an evil man he was."

What does this prove?

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably nothing, but i said it anyways.

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

The reason to take POWs and treat them reasonably well is because it results in an enemy who is less likely to fight to the death and more likely to give up. A good example of this is the first gulf war.

It's about reducing one's own casulties and has little to do with the actual POWs

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

I'm surprised no one else has mentioned that taking prisoners allows you to interrogate them for information about the enemy. Information wins wars. If prisoners realize they'll be shot right away, they have little reason to tell you anything.

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

I agree entirely. Everyone here needs to stop being such whiny hippie liberal pussies and grow some balls.

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

Gee, let me think. Would winning a war be easier if the some members of the opposing army were willing to give up, or harder.
Sounds like a trick question to me.

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

I'm always surprised at how many of us actually reply to a thread like this. On the other hand, there are so many vehement disagreements on this forum, maybe it just feels good to be able to agree on something.

But torture them first, OK ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Stop taking prisoners. Shoot them on the battlefield.

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I think it is probably a lot better to torture them first - and then off them. It does wonders for the morale of the troops, plus it quickly weans out the degenerate weaklings from among them.

My idea would be to torture the POWs right there, on the battlefield, so as to avoid the burden of transporting them back to the base for torture.

The troops should use what's available on the battlefield. An idea would be to rip out an arm or a leg from one of his dead comrades and hit him with it. Another idea would be to choke the prisoner by shoving in his mouth dirt from the ground, the dirtier the better. Get the ol' zippo to light up his pants while you're at it. And so on.

Of course, if the prisoner is already wounded, the possibilities are endless. You can have fun with the wound until he is all one.

PS You need one flamethrower per company to be cleaning up the mess afterwards.

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

The reasons why we lost this war have nothing to do with international law or how other people feel about it. Wether there was UN approval, wether Norway gave a rats ass, none of that ever really had an effect on the outcome of the war. That is why no one here cares about the UN.

Only two things ever mattered to this wars success, wether the Iraqi people wanted a liberal democracy and wether they were willing to accept outside interference to get from point A to point B. They have clearly rejected both of these things.

One could say that they might have been more accepting of these things if things had been run better, but that has little to do with the UN or international approval. The vast majority of funds, troops, and leadership would have been provided by the US under any circumstances.

International law and rules are a joke. No one can enforce them and people only obey them when it is already in thier best interest. That's not a law or a rule, it's words on paper.

P.S. The above is not related to the use of torture, which clearly agitates the Iraqi's, the only people who's opinion we care about. Though I don't think getting rid of Abu Gharaib would really have changed anything, they just don't accept those two concepts at all.

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

It makes me sick when you say the war is already lost.

Tell that to the troops. (You know, the guys that are still fighting.)

Stand in front of them and say they lost the war.

I'm sure they'd love to hear that.

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

They would, they can come home.

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

Yeah, the sad thing is they still have to fight.

Tell them they are fighting a lost battle, I'm sure that would have a positive effect.

What I'm trying to say is, when someone has a job to do, you don't tell them there's no point in doing it. It only makes them perform worse, and that could cost lives and more time, in combat.

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

The first step to ending an unwinnable war is to acknowledge that it is unwinnable. This can only be done through public discourse.

Moral is not the reason we aren't winning, we aren't winning because it's impossible to win.

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

[ QUOTE ]
The first step to ending an unwinnable war is to acknowledge that it is unwinnable. This can only be done through public discourse.

Moral is not the reason we aren't winning, we aren't winning because it's impossible to win.

[/ QUOTE ]

How can you have discourse of this type when anyone who criticizes the war is branded as "unpatriotic" or as "not supporting the troops"?

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

You do it by using facts and reasoning.

You don't try to be PC about it, and you don't try to use your own counter propoganda as it degrades your own credibility.

The murtha amendment was a good chance for the anti-war crowd to set thier own timetable for withdrawal, but instead of standing up for thier believes they continued to play both sides of the fence.

If you believe US troops should come home, say so, and present a timeline. Criticism without presenting alternatives is why the anti-war crowd lost before the war and is losing today.

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

And when the Iraqi army surrenders en masse in GWI, surrendering to helicopters, etc...

We just blow them away?

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

"No, no, dig up stupid"

Props if you know the reference.

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

[ QUOTE ]
The first step to ending an unwinnable war is to acknowledge that it is unwinnable. This can only be done through public discourse.

Moral is not the reason we aren't winning, we aren't winning because it's impossible to win.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree, and think we are winning, albeit slowly.

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

6M, I supported this war for the first two years myself, but there is no progress anymore, things are even reverting.

It seems clear they want to live in some backwards 9th century Islamic state (after all, it's in the constitution the produced). If this was only the opinion of a small minority, then the insurgents wouldn't be able to operate on the scale they are.

Either through active support, or even indifference, the general Iraqi public is supporting the insurgency.

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

[ QUOTE ]
6M, I supported this war for the first two years myself, but there is no progress anymore, things are even reverting.

It seems clear they want to live in some backwards 9th century Islamic state (after all, it's in the constitution the produced). If this was only the opinion of a small minority, then the insurgents wouldn't be able to operate on the scale they are.

Either through active support, or even indifference, the general Iraqi public is supporting the insurgency.

[/ QUOTE ]

My view is that those you are describing are definitely in the minority. I believe a lot of them are foreign fighters, some al-Qaeda, and some backed by Iran and Syria. The rest are remnants of Saddam's regime and/or sympaticos from the Sunni triangle area. It's not a tiny minority, but it is a minority.

Also, we have recently been capturing a lot more of the al-Qaeda in Iraq, and the Iraqi public is turning more insurgents in now than before.

I think more progress has been made than the news media generally report. Some of that lack is due to bias, as well as the news media's long-standing general tendency to report bad things and sensational things (and not just in Iraq; everywhere. Bad news sells). There are also some things not given to the news media in terms of progress made versus the insurgents that have occurred behind the scenes.

Iraqi elections are coming up shortly. I expect we will see a record turnout. Saddam's trial is gradually getting going. Things like this really do take time. It's only been a couple of years or so. A lot of changes have taken place, and after the elections, and trial (and execution) of Saddam, there is a good chance the country will come together more. Of course it won't be easy or happen overnight.

I'd bet that things in Iraq will be somewhat better 6 months from now, and better yet still a year and two years out from from now.

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

That's an easy one.

But very apt, especially considering how they got down the hole.

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

[ QUOTE ]
6M, I supported this war for the first two years myself, but there is no progress anymore, things are even reverting.

It seems clear they want to live in some backwards 9th century Islamic state (after all, it's in the constitution the produced). If this was only the opinion of a small minority, then the insurgents wouldn't be able to operate on the scale they are.

Either through active support, or even indifference, the general Iraqi public is supporting the insurgency.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am in the opposite camp as you. I was hesitant about the war at first, and believe the administration aimed to go to war before any evidence arose, pushed bad evidence carelessly and ignored dissent. However, I believe that we have reached a point in the war where turning back is foolish.

In aiming to take out Saddam and find WMDs, we have stumbled upon a great opportunity. Had we rapidly desposed of the insurgency and left Iraq, we would have had very little control over the post-war politics. The prolonged fight has pushed average Iraqis towards realizing our point of view - they have seen Zarqawi's vicious attacks on innocent civilians in their own population. Arabs are rising against the terrorists. Jordan is a good example of this. Jihadists have picked a fight with their native populations. The enemies of the Iraqi people are the same enemies of democracy that we have been fighting.

Yet, just as the moderate Muslim population is seeing the light, it has seemingly become imperative in Washington that we devise a way to flee Iraq, smothering whatever sparks of democracy are stirring in the Middle East. We set out to fight a war primarily for our own interests, and have come across a larger, greater cause. It would be a shame to abandon the war just because our lesser objectives were not met.

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

Interesting post.

You wrote:

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We set out to fight a war primarily for our own interests, and have come across a larger, greater cause.

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO Bush has had this cause in mind from day one of the war.

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It would be a shame to abandon the war just because our lesser objectives were not met.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't think that the USA will abandon this war anytime soon.

Re: Easy solution to captured enemy prisoners
 

You are wrong. Winning isn't the only thing. Winning might be the only thing if your nation's survival is at stake. That isn't the case here. I think you have been watching too many football games.