Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

Was that a terrible free agent signing or what? Renteria led the majors with 30 erros in 2005 and struggled at the plate. They trade Renteria and $11 million in cash for PROSPECT Andy Marte. Only the Red Sox and Yankees can afford such blunders and have the cash to recover.

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
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Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

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Was that a terrible free agent signing or what? Renteria led the majors with 30 erros in 2005 and struggled at the plate. They trade Renteria and $11 million in cash for PROSPECT Andy Marte. Only the Red Sox and Yankees can afford such blunders and have the cash to recover.

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

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You realize the Red Sox got something in return for this?

How much do you think Andy Marte is worth? Very highly rated prospect (easily tops in BoSox organization now), controlled by the Sox for his pre-arbitration years.

Maybe the price tag is a little under 11 mil, but not by much.

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

As a Braves fan, al I can say is:

[censored]!

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

holla!

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

And its worth every penny, what an awful signing.

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

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As a Braves fan, al I can say is:

[censored]!

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I don't thionk the proganity filter quite captures my sentiment.

[CEEEEEENNNNNNNNNSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEE EEDDDDDDDDDD]!

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

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As a Braves fan, al I can say is:

[censored]!

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I don't thionk the proganity filter quite captures my sentiment.

[CEEEEEENNNNNNNNNSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEE EEDDDDDDDDDD]!

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Chill out man, you just got the best 43 year old shortstop in the game. The glass is half full.

Gary

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

Yep, I think I'd rather have Betemit + Marte than Renteria + $11M. Unless they are going to sign some phantom free agent that can hit leadoff and close games with that money.

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

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Yep, I think I'd rather have Betemit + Marte than Renteria + $11M. Unless they are going to sign some phantom free agent that can hit leadoff and close games with that money.

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They didn't give up Betemit. Also, with Chipper locked up til '09, Marte wasn't going to play here anyway unless he moved to the OF.

Granted, we could've done a lot better than trading for Renteria....

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

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As a Braves fan, al I can say is:

[censored]!

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When I first heard about this, I said to myself, "This doesn't seem good, but if anyone can cast it in a good light JoA can."

[censored].

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

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They didn't give up Betemit.

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Where's he playing then? He would've been better than Renteria next year.

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

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As a Braves fan, al I can say is:

[censored]!

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why are the Braves giving away Marte so cheap? boston would be insane not to do this.

is it just me, or is this been a crazier than normal off-season so far?

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

Andy Marte is a good enough prospect that this trade could end up being seen as a great steal by the Red Sox in a few years. Of course, it all depends on whether Marte reaches his potential.

It leaves a hole for the Red Sox at shortstop. Apparently, the Julio Lugo trade talk has died.

But, there's still a shortstop on the market that most Red Sox fans would like to see signed- Nomar Garciaparra.

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

I think to put this trade into perspective you have to look at the deal two ways. One, look at the deal if the trade was Renteria for Marte straight up. Next, is Marte that good that the Red Sox should throw in $11 MILLION?

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

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...the Red Sox should throw in $11 MILLION?


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$11 million over three years in not a big expense for any MLB franchise and certainly not for the Red Sox.

What's the average player making these days? It's topped $2 million, right?

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

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$11 million over three years in not a big expense for any MLB franchise and certainly not for the Red Sox.

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I think it is effectively over four years, since they are paying $8 million in salary over the next three and then have to pay the $3 million buyout if the Braves don't bring him back for his option year (which they probably won't at $11 million).

No matter what, this move will almost certainly save the Red Sox money at the SS position over the next three or four years. A one year rental and then Pedroia is pretty cheap. Plus they can have Marte at low cost for six years at 3B if he does turn into a good player.

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

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Andy Marte is a good enough prospect that this trade could end up being seen as a great steal by the Red Sox in a few years. Of course, it all depends on whether Marte reaches his potential.

It leaves a hole for the Red Sox at shortstop. Apparently, the Julio Lugo trade talk has died.

But, there's still a shortstop on the market that most Red Sox fans would like to see signed- Nomar Garciaparra.

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Personally, I would be mortified if they brought back Nomar, and I'm sure its not just me.

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

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$11 million over three years in not a big expense for any MLB franchise and certainly not for the Red Sox.

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I think it is effectively over four years, since they are paying $8 million in salary over the next three and then have to pay the $3 million buyout if the Braves don't bring him back for his option year (which they probably won't at $11 million).

No matter what, this move will almost certainly save the Red Sox money at the SS position over the next three or four years. A one year rental and then Pedroia is pretty cheap. Plus they can have Marte at low cost for six years at 3B if he does turn into a good player.

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yeah, the 11m is mitigated by the porspect of having marte for 750k and put up all star numbers for a few years. having him on the staring lineup at 750k with a payroll of 100m two years from now is enormous.

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

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yeah, the 11m is mitigated by the porspect of having marte for 750k and put up all star numbers for a few years. having him on the staring lineup at 750k with a payroll of 100m two years from now is enormous.

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Yup. The way things are shaping up, the Sox will actually have a lot more financial flexibility in the next couple years as they incorporate a bunch of low cost young guys.

Side note: Did you see the news item about Gammons implying on WEEI that the front office was still consulting Theo regularly on these moves? Pretty weird.

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

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yeah, the 11m is mitigated by the porspect of having marte for 750k and put up all star numbers for a few years. having him on the staring lineup at 750k with a payroll of 100m two years from now is enormous.

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Yup. The way things are shaping up, the Sox will actually have a lot more financial flexibility in the next couple years as they incorporate a bunch of low cost young guys.

Side note: Did you see the news item about Gammons implying on WEEI that the front office was still consulting Theo regularly on these moves? Pretty weird.

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well whatver is going on over there, its working [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

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well whatver is going on over there, its working


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Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

This is a GREAT deal for the Braves. I am going to make the insanely bold prediction that the Braves pick up the $11M option on Reneria in 2009 when he is all of 33 years old!

Renteria at $6M per year will be one of the best bargains amongst vereran players over the next three years. This fills a pretty big hole for the Braves without really hurting themselves in the near future, despite giving up a top flight prospect.

This was a terrible move by the Red Sox. One bad year and let's just throw Renteria in the crap heap. Not only do they create a huge hole for themselves, but they PAY money to create that hole. While Marte is a very good prospect, let's not put him in the All Star game just yet. Much better prospects have been total flops. As the rosters stand, I would not expect Marte to be the starting 3B in Boston.

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

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One bad year and let's just throw Renteria in the crap heap.

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Renteria's 2005 was in-line with his 2004 and his career numbers overall.

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

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One bad year and let's just throw Renteria in the crap heap.

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Renteria's 2005 was in-line with his 2004 and his career numbers overall.

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Really, because I don't see any 30 error seasons on his resume? Let's count the number of times he stole less than 10 bases in his career? And while his OPS+ was 91 compared to his carrer OPS+ of 95, players at his age are supposed to be in thier prime. So it is not out of the realm of possibility that his OPS+ expectaion is over 100. Also, the 11 point drop in batting average from 2004 to 2005 (despite moving to a good park for average) and 22 extra K's are significant, even with the same OPS. I have also heard that he did not display as much range at short as normal.

And besides, a veteran shortstop with an OPS+ of 95+, good speed, and good defense, is a pretty valuble commodity. Probably worth $10M per year.

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

Let's see, the one thing you brought up that was actually relevant at all was... his errors. His stolen bases are trivial because he doesn't steal them at a high rate. His batting average and strikeouts are piss-poor measures of value, and they absolutely aren't significant, especially since we know his OBP and SLG.

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

I agree, by themselves average and strikeouts are very poor measures of value. But, if two players have the exact same OBP and SLG in the exact same environment, the player who hits for a higher average is a much more valuble commodity. If they hit for the same average, the player who strikes out less will be more valuble. So they are important, and certianly not irrelevant.

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

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Really, because I don't see any 30 error seasons on his resume?

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since 1999, he's had other seasons of 27, 26, and 24 errors as well

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

But, if two players have the exact same OBP and SLG in the exact same environment, the player who hits for a higher average is a much more valuble commodity.

in the past, sure. however, going forward a player who draws his OBP value from walks should maintain his value for longer.

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

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This is a GREAT deal for the Braves. I am going to make the insanely bold prediction that the Braves pick up the $11M option on Reneria in 2009 when he is all of 33 years old!

Renteria at $6M per year will be one of the best bargains amongst vereran players over the next three years. This fills a pretty big hole for the Braves without really hurting themselves in the near future, despite giving up a top flight prospect.

This was a terrible move by the Red Sox. One bad year and let's just throw Renteria in the crap heap. Not only do they create a huge hole for themselves, but they PAY money to create that hole. While Marte is a very good prospect, let's not put him in the All Star game just yet. Much better prospects have been total flops. As the rosters stand, I would not expect Marte to be the starting 3B in Boston.

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huge hole? have you seen the starting SS for the last few WS champs?

this is a good deal for both sides. the braves get value on renteria while the red sox get the NUMBER ONE prospect accoding to baseball prospectus. the braves could not get him into the starting lineup becuase of jones, yet the red sox have no such problem.

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

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[ QUOTE ]
This is a GREAT deal for the Braves. I am going to make the insanely bold prediction that the Braves pick up the $11M option on Reneria in 2009 when he is all of 33 years old!

Renteria at $6M per year will be one of the best bargains amongst vereran players over the next three years. This fills a pretty big hole for the Braves without really hurting themselves in the near future, despite giving up a top flight prospect.

This was a terrible move by the Red Sox. One bad year and let's just throw Renteria in the crap heap. Not only do they create a huge hole for themselves, but they PAY money to create that hole. While Marte is a very good prospect, let's not put him in the All Star game just yet. Much better prospects have been total flops. As the rosters stand, I would not expect Marte to be the starting 3B in Boston.

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huge hole? have you seen the starting SS for the last few WS champs?

this is a good deal for both sides. the braves get value on renteria while the red sox get the NUMBER ONE prospect accoding to baseball prospectus. the braves could not get him into the starting lineup becuase of jones, yet the red sox have no such problem.

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I consider going from Edgar Renteria to Alex Cora as your starting shortstop creating a huge hole.

Now Marte is blocked by Mike Lowell. Have fun with that Boston fans.

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

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This is a GREAT deal for the Braves. I am going to make the insanely bold prediction that the Braves pick up the $11M option on Reneria in 2009 when he is all of 33 years old!

Renteria at $6M per year will be one of the best bargains amongst vereran players over the next three years. This fills a pretty big hole for the Braves without really hurting themselves in the near future, despite giving up a top flight prospect.

This was a terrible move by the Red Sox. One bad year and let's just throw Renteria in the crap heap. Not only do they create a huge hole for themselves, but they PAY money to create that hole. While Marte is a very good prospect, let's not put him in the All Star game just yet. Much better prospects have been total flops. As the rosters stand, I would not expect Marte to be the starting 3B in Boston.

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huge hole? have you seen the starting SS for the last few WS champs?

this is a good deal for both sides. the braves get value on renteria while the red sox get the NUMBER ONE prospect accoding to baseball prospectus. the braves could not get him into the starting lineup becuase of jones, yet the red sox have no such problem.

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I consider going from Edgar Renteria to Alex Cora as your starting shortstop creating a huge hole.

Now Marte is blocked by Mike Lowell. Have fun with that Boston fans.

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blocked by mike lowell? LOL!

i am amazed that people 'anaylze' this deal, yet just post what they think.

the 11m$ sent to the braves is offset by the fact that the red sox control marte for 5-6 years. if this guy turns out to be scott rolen then its a STEAL. again, he is the NUMBER ONE PROSPECT rated by baseball prospectus. sure, he could turn out to be nothing and suck but teams have to take chances like that in order to be contenders year in and year out. this isnt some 19 year old A pitcher. this is a 21 year old with 4 seasons in the minors with monsterous numbers at semi key defensive position.

renteria peaked a few years ago and has had two season that were progressivly worse since then. at the money the braves are paying for him now, he has value. at the money the sox were paying for him, he wasnt.

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

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I consider going from Edgar Renteria to Alex Cora as your starting shortstop creating a huge hole.

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my bad. I must have missed the part about the Red Sox announcing that Alex Cora would be our starting shortstop next year.

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Now Marte is blocked by Mike Lowell. Have fun with t[hat Boston fans.

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wait - a current AAA guy, who might not be ready for full time duty until next year, is blocked by a guy with 2 years on his contract?

that was a pretty dumb thing to say, for all kinds of reasons

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

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Now Marte is blocked by Mike Lowell. Have fun with that Boston fans.

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wait - a current AAA guy, who might not be ready for full time duty until next year, is blocked by a guy with 2 years on his contract?

that was a pretty dumb thing to say, for all kinds of reasons

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Marte is ready for his full time Major League trial right now. Instead he might spend the season in AAA. That is the very definition of blocked.

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

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I consider going from Edgar Renteria to Alex Cora as your starting shortstop creating a huge hole.

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my bad. I must have missed the part about the Red Sox announcing that Alex Cora would be our starting shortstop next year.

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Now Marte is blocked by Mike Lowell. Have fun with t[hat Boston fans.

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wait - a current AAA guy, who might not be ready for full time duty until next year, is blocked by a guy with 2 years on his contract?

that was a pretty dumb thing to say, for all kinds of reasons



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it was mostly dumb due to the fact that:

A) if marte is ready to play, he will. lowell is not chipper jones
B) lowell can play 1B

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

Boston Herald quote:

"After the trade was announced, one baseball source said another team that was interested in Marte turned away after the Braves acknowledged the player had a tear in the ulnar collateral ligament of an elbow. A Red Sox official said Marte is healthy and that the team reviewed his medical file."

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

Not that $3 million dollars means much today but the $11 million figure is a little deceiving because it includes the $3 million dollar buy out of Renteria's 5th year option.

So it's really just $8 million more "out of pocket" as far as the Red Sox are concerned because had the
sox not made this deal they would have been on the hook for $30 million for the next 3 years plus the $3 million buy out.

Looking at it another way the deal actually saves the Sox $22 million($33m - $11m) as opposed to the $19 million($30m - $11m) that everyone is thinking.

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

So you are telling me that the Red Sox will move a gold glove third baseman over to first?

Marte is very clearly ready to get his shot at being a Major League starter. If there was no Lowell, it would be his job to lose. Since there is Lowell, he is going to have to come in and be a super-duper star to get the job. I agree, if he hits .500 with 9 HR's in spring, he will be in the lineup somewhere. Marte is most likely headed for another half season at AAA, bare minimum.

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

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So you are telling me that the Red Sox will move a gold glove third baseman over to first?

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they'll do what it takes to get the best lineup out there. that might mean Lowell at 1st - hey, I bet he would be a Gold Glover over there as well! also, it's not like the Sox have a great option at 1st base, currently. I guess Youk would be the 1b if the season started now.

I seem to remember the Yankees taking a gold glove shortstop making $25M a year, and moving him to 3rd base. he won MVP last year.

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

The Red Sox would have been on the hook for $26M + $3M buyout. Barring an injury, Boston will not have to pay the $3M. The Red Sox are saving $18M over three years.

Re: Red Sox pay $11 million to rid themselves of Edgar Renteria
 

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I consider going from Edgar Renteria to Alex Cora as your starting shortstop creating a huge hole.

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my bad. I must have missed the part about the Red Sox announcing that Alex Cora would be our starting shortstop next year.

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Now Marte is blocked by Mike Lowell. Have fun with t[hat Boston fans.

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wait - a current AAA guy, who might not be ready for full time duty until next year, is blocked by a guy with 2 years on his contract?

that was a pretty dumb thing to say, for all kinds of reasons



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it was mostly dumb due to the fact that:

A) if marte is ready to play, he will. lowell is not chipper jones
B) lowell can play 1B

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Lowell has no experience playing 1B. It is not always an easy transition. Besides, Lowell's value is providing above average defense at third base.

FWIW, I think it was a bad trade for Atlanta. I think Renteria will have a bounce back year, but they definitely could have gotten him for less than Marte. Hell, the Sox probably would've taken Betemit and a pitcher for him, just to get rid of his contract.

The Devil Rays are the biggest losers in this. They could have had Marte for Julio Lugo straight up, and TURNED IT DOWN.