50/100 3 handed
 

Sb just joined the table. Button folds, he raise. I 3bet k9o from the BB. Flop is 953 and he check calls. The turn is an 8 and he check raises. What is my play and why. If i 3 bet do i fold to a 4 bet?

Re: 50/100 3 handed
 

I would call down. Your hand is definitely strong enough to go to the showdown, but I do not think it is strong enough to fire in another raise.

Re: 50/100 3 handed
 

[ QUOTE ]
Sb just joined the table. Button folds, he raise. I 3bet k9o from the BB. Flop is 953 and he check calls. The turn is an 8 and he check raises. What is my play and why. If i 3 bet do i fold to a 4 bet?

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i think 3-bet folding is fine once in a while, particularly if you want to encourage your opponent to bluff more and give a lot of action in general. you just have to be aware that once they figure out you're capable of 3-bet/folding and they start going nuts, you can't keep folding.

the fact that he just joined the table suggests it might not be a bad idea - he's pretty damn unlikely to be 4-betting anything that doesn't have you crushed. on the other hand, he could be a maniac and you just don't know it yet, and folding would be disastrous.

Re: 50/100 3 handed
 

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If i 3 bet do i fold to a 4 bet?

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I would like to comment on this hypothetical question. Since you have no read on the villain, taking any line of action that could result in you folding this hand on this board is being reckless with your bankroll IMO. 3 bet and fold to a 4 bet are lines you can only take against opponents you know very well. Whenever you are in a situation HU against an unknown with a decent hand such as the one you have, I would never take a line that would possibly lead to you folding. If you would feel compelled to fold to a 4 bet if you did 3 bet then you should not 3 bet to begin with. Against an unknown, getting to the showdown with this hand is too valuable IMO.

So you really only have 3 lines of action that are acceptable IMO:
1)call down
2) 3bet/call the turn and call/bet/check the river
3)call the turn, and raise/call, bet or check the river

I choose #1.

Re: 50/100 3 handed
 

I think you got too much hand here. I 3 bet and if he 4 bets i barf and then *probably* call down, but folding here and calling stuff later is probably the better plan.

Re: 50/100 3 handed
 

If you were out of position I would like a 3bet, here I just calldown.

Re: 50/100 3 handed
 

im happy to threebet and i fold NEVER.

Re: 50/100 3 handed
 

Your hand is too strong to fold in a SB/BB war. I like calling then raising any river other than A, J or T. Whether you raise the river if a 6, 7 or 8 hits depends on your play style and the image you want to project. It's risky because I think you'd have to pay off a total unknown in that spot in that game.

The main reason I don't like raising the turn is that just about any player will release when they are on air. Also, a tough player is capable of releasing when drawing to 5 outs or less and is much more likely to 4 bet the turn when you are behind as opposed to 3 betting the river.

Re: 50/100 3 handed
 

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Your hand is too strong to fold in a SB/BB war. I like calling then raising any river other than A, J or T. Whether you raise the river if a 6, 7 or 8 hits depends on your play style and the image you want to project. It's risky because I think you'd have to pay off a total unknown in that spot in that game.

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You almost nailed my line perfectly. Though I would throw a Q on the "don't raise" list as well.

Re: 50/100 3 handed
 

i dont wait for the river here because half (maybe more!) river cards are gonna make u not wanna raise, but youll still have the best hand the majority of the time...
also, he is allowed to check the river and then u csant raise... what if it comes ace or seven? he might check his pair, then u miss a bet...
no1 folds a pair in blind battles at 50/100 online, if he folds he had some stupid bluff that we prob dont mind him fold... not like our hand is invulnerable here.

Re: 50/100 3 handed
 

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i dont wait for the river here because half (maybe more!) river cards are gonna make u not wanna raise, but youll still have the best hand the majority of the time...

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if half the deck kills your hands and makes you not want to raise, ie., if your equity edge is really slim or non-existent now, why not wait until the river to raise when you know your equity edge is higher?

Re: 50/100 3 handed
 

either u misunderstood or youre just being difficult.
bye.

Re: 50/100 3 handed
 

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either u misunderstood or youre just being difficult.
bye.

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i think i understood correctly. please do explain if not.

Re: 50/100 3 handed
 

if a bad one comes off u might reconsider raising as youre now less likely to be called by the worst hand and when u get reraised youll be a much bigger dog, but fiolding K9 on this board in a blind battle sucks.
it feels gross and its awful for metagame...
looks as if you either went nuts and raised on river w/ nothing or maybe you raised for value but then decided to fold 4 one more bet closing action for the hand... either way, a metagame disaster...
ppl are already gonna be playing agg in a 3handed online game, no need to encourage them.

Re: 50/100 3 handed
 

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if a bad one comes off u might reconsider raising as youre now less likely to be called by the worst hand and when u get reraised youll be a much bigger dog, but fiolding K9 on this board in a blind battle sucks.

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and if a good one comes off, you're much more likely to be called by a worse hand that's drawing dead. on the turn, even if you're ahead 70% of the time, raising could still actually be -EV when you consider that you're likely to get 4-bet when behind and your equity is only something like 80-85% when ahead.

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it feels gross and its awful for metagame...
looks as if you either went nuts and raised on river w/ nothing or maybe you raised for value but then decided to fold 4 one more bet closing action for the hand... either way, a metagame disaster...
ppl are already gonna be playing agg in a 3handed online game, no need to encourage them.

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if they're already too aggressive, encouraging them to be more aggressive is +EV.

Re: 50/100 3 handed
 

i agree with pete

Results...
 

I didn't like my play on this hand. I 3 bet the turn, then gagged and called his 4 bet. I paid off a river dud to see 67.

Re: 50/100 3 handed
 

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if a bad one comes off u might reconsider raising as youre now less likely to be called by the worst hand and when u get reraised youll be a much bigger dog, but fiolding K9 on this board in a blind battle sucks.
it feels gross and its awful for metagame...
looks as if you either went nuts and raised on river w/ nothing or maybe you raised for value but then decided to fold 4 one more bet closing action for the hand... either way, a metagame disaster...
ppl are already gonna be playing agg in a 3handed online game, no need to encourage them.

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i agree, and throw in that certain other cards might make a hand like A8 or worse to check-call the river or bet-fold.

Re: 50/100 3 handed
 

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if they're already too aggressive, encouraging them to be more aggressive is +EV.

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I disagree.

Re: 50/100 3 handed
 

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[ QUOTE ]
if a bad one comes off u might reconsider raising as youre now less likely to be called by the worst hand and when u get reraised youll be a much bigger dog, but fiolding K9 on this board in a blind battle sucks.
it feels gross and its awful for metagame...
looks as if you either went nuts and raised on river w/ nothing or maybe you raised for value but then decided to fold 4 one more bet closing action for the hand... either way, a metagame disaster...
ppl are already gonna be playing agg in a 3handed online game, no need to encourage them.

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i agree, and throw in that certain other cards might make a hand like A8 or worse to check-call the river or bet-fold.

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<font color="red">also, he is allowed to check the river and then u csant raise... what if it comes ace or seven? he might check his pair, then u miss a bet...
no1 folds a pair in blind battles at 50/100 online, if he folds he had some stupid bluff that we prob dont mind him fold... not like our hand is invulnerable here.

</font>
i said that, but yeah...
i cant tell u how many times ive threebet fourth in these situations in online games and been called down and won.
ppl will not fold a fvcking pair, but they will check it.

note i never said its an ez automatic reraise, i said id usually threebet it, i believe that is correct. if i just sat down or the guy was new i might just call down, see his hand for 2BB... its just a pair, but its the nut one pair... im sure every1 would be happy to go three if we had AA.

Re: 50/100 3 handed
 

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[if they're already too aggressive, encouraging them to be more aggressive is +EV.

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maybe u dont want the respect cause you always have the nuts... i never have anything, so i dont need ppl putting pressure on me nonstop.

Re: 50/100 3 handed
 

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[if they're already too aggressive, encouraging them to be more aggressive is +EV.

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maybe u dont want the respect cause you always have the nuts... i never have anything, so i dont need ppl putting pressure on me nonstop.

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lol, yeah, exactly...i pretty much get crushed when ppl have their foot on the pedal nonstop...

Re: 50/100 3 handed
 

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Your hand is too strong to fold in a SB/BB war. I like calling then raising any river other than A, J or T. Whether you raise the river if a 6, 7 or 8 hits depends on your play style and the image you want to project. It's risky because I think you'd have to pay off a total unknown in that spot in that game.

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You almost nailed my line perfectly. Though I would throw a Q on the "don't raise" list as well.

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Glad some peoples mentioned this line, as its one I would probably take. Well, it was my first thought here. You are usually less likely to be 3bet by a worse hand on the river as well, usually.

Also, I dont think u can really ever fold a pair in these situations, like almost ever. Its really depandant though.

Re: 50/100 3 handed
 

I'd call down.

I know that's boring, but you get to avoid the whole "do I call the re-raise on the turn or not" thing, which feels terrible, AND you get to see his hand, which I really want to see, because it's my first hand with this guy and I want to see how he plays 3 handed when I have a some showdown value. No point in making it any more expensive to get there.

But there are other things at play here too. First, a turn cr is a strong move. Check raising a lower pair here for him would be very risky. Most of the time if he's going to be aggressive with a lower pair he will do that on the flop. Second, as other people have stated, I may not want to give the impression that I am willing to fold after raising the turn for one more bet. (Edit - I forgot to add that if he's bluffing he'll just keep bluffing if you call, which others have also mentioned.)

K-9o isn't that great of a hand, but you 3 bet with it preflop (I'm not saying that was wrong, BTW), made a big pot out of it, and got cr'ed on the turn after catching a piece. Make the most of it and move on.

Re: 50/100 3 handed
 

if they're already too aggressive, encouraging them to be more aggressive is +EV.

I would also disagree with this. Generally (there are always exceptions), when I come up against an aggro opponent, I like to beat the aggro right out of them. Extra passivity never won anybody a pot they would have lost, but the reverse is not true.

Re: 50/100 3 handed
 

I think a 3 bet is probably in order here. Do you have any history on the player in question? I think that if he flopped top pair here that he would have put action in on the flop. The 8 changes nothing really in my opinion. It certainly could change a little maybe 5-7% of the time the eight may help him beat you. In a blind struggle here I think if he has an over pair preflop--he caps unless he holds A-A or K-K. These two holding he may smooth call.

I would say that based on this I would 3 bet the turn and call down a 4 bet.