Anyone folding this? Hehe QJ
 

<font color="green"> SB - major fish, Only bets 2pair or maybe TPTK if checked to or first in(He wimps out and calls down if hes getting bet into with anything less than 2pair).

With 2pair he's happy to bet though, He may wimp out if people go to the river though.His pt stats are 66/4/1 over 90 hands.


Button - Not seen much from this guy, His PT stats show:
50/6/1 over 550 hands (Datamined)</font>

Preflop: all 6of limp and im on SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Flop(6SB): 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
I check, UTG(A major fish of 66/4/1 over 90 hands) bets, Button calls and i call.

<font color="blue">[This is 8:1 with Jacks potentially clean, Ten to win or split - I reckon this is fine, what do you make of it? </font>

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img](4.5BB)
I check, UTG bets, Button Calls and i call.
<font color="blue">yeah look at mr being all passive and stuff! Woooo. So anyone want to bet this? Bet fold? Bet this then check river? whats the plan? </font>

River:7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img](7.5BB)
I check, UTG Checks, Button bets, SB Calls, Hero?
<font color="blue">Call? Fold? 9.5:1 to call. </font>

Re: Anyone folding this? Hehe QJ
 

I was about to try to insult you and say you play like SB. Then I realized that you are SB, fish. Bet the flop. Given that you didn't, I am not sure if I like betting the turn, or check raising the turn. Probably just bet, but check raise might be right. Given that you didn't, bet the river. Given that you didn't .... wait, now I am confused. Did SB call, or you call, who is who? I am so confused. Your hand makes no sense whatsoever.

Re: Anyone folding this? Hehe QJ
 

i think hero is BB not SB, needs an edit - notice he didnt say "i complete".

I would bet the flop (assuming SB checked and Hero (BB) Bet) and call a raise. Then stop-and-go the turn, if raised again, c/c the river.

Re: Anyone folding this? Hehe QJ
 

why didn't you bet the flop pokher? it's a mistake.

Re: Anyone folding this? Hehe QJ
 

<font color="green">BB - major fish, Only bets 2pair or maybe TPTK if checked to or first in(He wimps out and calls down if hes getting bet into with anything less than 2pair).

With 2pair he's happy to bet though, He may wimp out if people go to the river though.His pt stats are 66/4/1 over 90 hands.


Button - Not seen much from this guy, His PT stats show:
50/6/1 over 550 hands (Datamined)
</font>
Preflop: all 6of limp and im on SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Flop(6SB): 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
I check, BB(A major fish of 66/4/1 over 90 hands) bets, Button calls and i call.

<font color="blue">
[This is 8:1 with Jacks potentially clean, Ten to win or split - I reckon this is fine, what do you make of it?
</font>

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img](4.5BB)
I check, BB bets, Button Calls and i call.
<font color="blue">
yeah look at mr being all passive and stuff! Woooo. So anyone want to bet this? Bet fold? Bet this then check river? whats the plan? </font>

River:7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img](7.5BB)
I check, BB Checks, Button bets, Hero? (BB to act after me)<font color="blue">
Call? Fold? 9.5:1 to call.</font>


Thats better - Reasons for my play later. and results.

Re: Anyone folding this? Hehe QJ
 

[ QUOTE ]
why didn't you bet the flop pokher? it's a mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

These guys are hard to read, pretty iratic.

I didn't bet the flop for a few reasons.

I wanted to see the action ahead, A free card isnt a huge problem, I'm potentialy behind and if i'm bet and raised i must call(being raise will make me assume im behind).

Also, The BB and most likly Button will call anyhow - With a king or without putting me in a tough turn spot in a bigger pot.

I'd usually bet this spot but i felt i had numerous reasons not to.

Now i know this isn't the usual "2+2" advice, So this is why i posted it to get us thinking as aggression can sometime be misplaced(i felt this was one of those times, But maybe im wrong).

Re: Anyone folding this? Hehe QJ
 

Alright, I will try to respond once more. Bet the flop, and don't think twice about it. Given that you didn't, I like betting the turn. BB may be scared, and unwilling to bet this turn, thereby not giving you the opportunity to check raise. If you check, I think you must check raise. Which hands with a T do you but BB on? I think Button would raise with his T. Given that you just called, bet/call the river. You don't want this to be checked through, and you don't want to check raise, cuz getting 3-bet would suck.

Re: Anyone folding this? Hehe QJ
 

With second pair on a scary board in a field of 6, this seems like a pretty bad place for a flop lead to me. I check-and-see here.

Re: Anyone folding this? Hehe QJ
 

[ QUOTE ]
With second pair on a scary board in a field of 6, this seems like a pretty bad place for a flop lead to me. I check-and-see here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. SpicyMoose hasn't explained the reasons for a bet in the first place.

Re: Anyone folding this? Hehe QJ
 

People limp in with all sorts of junk. Bet for value. You have between 6-8 outs if you are behind, and you may not even be. If the flop is checked through it sucks. You lose a ton of value from random T or Q hands that will call the flop but not the turn.

Re: Anyone folding this? Hehe QJ
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
With second pair on a scary board in a field of 6, this seems like a pretty bad place for a flop lead to me. I check-and-see here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. SpicyMoose hasn't explained the reasons for a bet in the first place.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry for not explaining. Just because there are 5 opponents in our hand, doesn't mean that our second pair, almost certainly top kicker isn't good. Only a few hands beat us right now, and there are tons that don't. We are getting tons of value on our bet, and further more we get way more information if someone raises our bet, than if we just check and call. If we start checking and calling, it will be so much more difficult to know the correct situation on the turn. We probably will still be ahead, but if we try to bet or check raise there, if we are behind we will be paying pretty dearly. Finally, even if we are behind on the flop, we have a good pair, good kicker, and gutshot straight draw. We most probably have at least 6, if not more outs against someone if we are behind. Value!

Re: Anyone folding this? Hehe QJ
 

[ QUOTE ]
we get way more information if someone raises our bet, than if we just check and call. If we start checking and calling, it will be so much more difficult to know the correct situation on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Spicy, this sounds to me like you're trying to bet for information...if we bet and get a few callers (which is by far the most likely outcome against LP players like this), we're just as clueless as we are on the flop. The only useful information you're saying we get is knowing we're beat if it we get raised, and even then we're paying a large fraction of a bet for it.

By checking-and-seeing, we still get to get away much more cheaply if it comes back raised to us, without the initial investment. Plus, we may get the opportunity to actually protect our hand on a drawy board if we have a chance to raise an LP autobettor.

Re: Anyone folding this? Hehe QJ
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
we get way more information if someone raises our bet, than if we just check and call. If we start checking and calling, it will be so much more difficult to know the correct situation on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Spicy, this sounds to me like you're trying to bet for information...if we bet and get a few callers (which is by far the most likely outcome against LP players like this), we're just as clueless as we are on the flop. The only useful information you're saying we get is knowing we're beat if it we get raised, and even then we're paying a large fraction of a bet for it.

By checking-and-seeing, we still get to get away much more cheaply if it comes back raised to us, without the initial investment. Plus, we may get the opportunity to actually protect our hand on a drawy board if we have a chance to raise an LP autobettor.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. My primary reason for betting is for value. I just think an added benefit is that we do get more information when we bet than when we check. You cannot count on a late better, and if an early better bets, and there is a raise, you are put in a tough spot. You may still have the best hand, and you have a strong draw, so you probably have to call, not fold. Although protecting our hand is good, it isn't guaranteed. Letting this flop get checked through would be criminal.

Re: Anyone folding this? Hehe QJ
 

ummm, passive enough there. with that cast of characters I'm leading out into them with my hand. I think your hand is strong enough to overcall the river considering that both of the players are pretty bad