Make my hand and fold anyways?
 

This was at a 400 nl 6 max table on party. No real read on villan except he seemed standard enough. Anyways, I limp 33 UTG, villan limps in CO, and BB makes it 16. I call as does villan.

Flop comes 445 suited. BB checks, I bet 40, villan calls, bb fold. Turn is a 6. I check? Villan bets 50, I figure wtv and call. Pot is now 230. River is a 2 making my straight. The hand I put villan on the whole way was a higher overpair, so I fire out 125, hoping to get piad off. Instead villan moves in for another 176. At first im thinking this should be an easy fold, he has to have a fh right? I mean only a moron could move in there and not beat a straigth. However this is party and I seem some pretty dumb shiit and the pot was so big, I was wondering what the correct play was.

Re: Make my hand and fold anyways?
 

Looks like he has 55 or 44. Once he called the 50 bet by you I would assume he doesnt have AA, KK or he probably would have raised. When you check turn he bets 50, looks like he wants you to get there. Wierd river, tough hand I guess you have to call since you hit and hope he is a donkey.

Re: Make my hand and fold anyways?
 

Fold the turn.

Re: Make my hand and fold anyways?
 

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Fold the turn.

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Very possible option. However I put him on an overpair and dont like folding good draws at a cheap price when players have a habit of paying off to value bets.

Re: Make my hand and fold anyways?
 

Even the worst players dont play over pairs like this. This turn looks like a monster.

Re: Make my hand and fold anyways?
 

I try to make it a habit not to chase one-card sucker straight draws on paired two-flush boards out of position.

Re: Make my hand and fold anyways?
 

do you really think you're good here less than 20% of the time?

Re: Make my hand and fold anyways?
 

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However this is party and I seem some pretty dumb shiit and the pot was so big

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This is why I would call--river raise looks like a fh, but I can't beleive the [censored] people do sometimes, with odds that good at this level I probably put the rest in and hope the guy isn't that good.

Re: Make my hand and fold anyways?
 

The simplicity of playing small pp is flop it or drop it.

Your hand range for villain is way too narrow. and speaking of hands, what kind of hand range can villain put you on? Limps UTG, calls a raise from the BB, leads the flop into a paired board when BB doesn't make a CB, then checks the turn when the str8 hits, but calls a weak bet OOP, then fires at the river?

From the looks of it villain has a big hand and is patiently waiting for you to make something. Lucky for him you made the low end of a str8 that was already there on the turn.

Check fold the flop.

Re: Make my hand and fold anyways?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The simplicity of playing small pp is flop it or drop it.

Your hand range for villain is way too narrow. and speaking of hands, what kind of hand range can villain put you on? Limps UTG, calls a raise from the BB, leads the flop into a paired board when BB doesn't make a CB, then checks the turn when the str8 hits, but calls a weak bet OOP, then fires at the river?

From the looks of it villain has a big hand and is patiently waiting for you to make something. Lucky for him you made the low end of a str8 that was already there on the turn.

Check fold the flop.

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Stright wasnt there on the turn. Bt besides from that you make alot of good points. Only thing I dont agree with is betting the flop, it takes it down 50% of the time +. Of all the things I did in this hand, betting the flop is the one I question the least. I make that bet every time.

Re: Make my hand and fold anyways?
 

I don't think an overpair is really calling a river here unless the guy is just atrocious. I'd check/call the river. I don't really see any problems with the hand besides that.

Re: Make my hand and fold anyways?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The simplicity of playing small pp is flop it or drop it.

Your hand range for villain is way too narrow. and speaking of hands, what kind of hand range can villain put you on? Limps UTG, calls a raise from the BB, leads the flop into a paired board when BB doesn't make a CB, then checks the turn when the str8 hits, but calls a weak bet OOP, then fires at the river?

From the looks of it villain has a big hand and is patiently waiting for you to make something. Lucky for him you made the low end of a str8 that was already there on the turn.

Check fold the flop.

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Stright wasnt there on the turn. Bt besides from that you make alot of good points. Only thing I dont agree with is betting the flop, it takes it down 50% of the time +. Of all the things I did in this hand, betting the flop is the one I question the least. I make that bet every time.

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turn was a 6. 87o is gold.

Re: Make my hand and fold anyways?
 

i call river without much thought

Re: Make my hand and fold anyways?
 

[ QUOTE ]
i call river without much thought

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I like you davis

Re: Make my hand and fold anyways?
 

as a general piece of advice after reading both these drawing hands...quit drawing to bad hands.

in both the hands your decision was made on the turn so the river is a no brainer...call and call

next time think about the consequences of these turn calls before you make them.

holla.

results
 

Ya, I dont mind drawing as long as I have discipline or a good read. In this hand I had neither.

When he pushed, I was like, okay, im gonna make a big laywdown despite the odds, sweet. But then my stupid brain kicked in and told me I only need to be ahead 1 time in 5 so I called.

Villan had 45. Flopped a boat. Oh well, but I posted the toher hand for contrast and to show that 2-4 6max plays pretty strange and you guys need to open your mind up a bit on this nitty play.

Re: results
 

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you guys need to open your mind up a bit on this nitty play.

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Dude.. you played both of these hands like crap. Get over yourself.

Re: results
 

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[ QUOTE ]
you guys need to open your mind up a bit on this nitty play.

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Dude.. you played both of these hands like crap. Get over yourself.

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Yaya, I know, I know. Just meant in general, ppl here play too tight passive for my liking. Not this hand, this hand was ugly.

Re: results
 

calling with bad draws then calling off your money on the river when you hit is stupid.

if you want to be bold push the turn in both these hands. if not then fold. calling is nitty.

(also i agree somewhat that the posters/advice in this forum is pretty weak at times, but this advice will continue to beat these games...albeit with little to no chance of turning anyone into a superb player.)

Re: results
 

[ QUOTE ]
calling with bad draws then calling off your money on the river when you hit is stupid.

if you want to be bold push the turn in both these hands. if not then fold. calling is nitty.

(also i agree somewhat that the posters/advice in this forum is pretty weak at times, but this advice will continue to beat these games...albeit with little to no chance of turning anyone into a superb player.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, this is exactly how I feel. Im trying to improve and get away from the abc game that I know can win, but id rather make more money by being a better player. So im looking to play hands differently and make more marginal decisions. So im posting these hands to get feedback on a dirrferent way of playing than im used to. I try to take all the posts with a grain of salt, but some of them are so set in their ways, them posting on a hand like this is ridiculous (I mean guys who wouldnt limp KT offsuit in position)

But ill take the criticism to heart and try to learn from it. It is clear now that I should fold the turn, or at least trust my read and fold for the extra 175. But then again, if we look at other hands, like the Q high flush where i won, it becomes harder to say which play is right. Accoridng to the posters here I should fold both, but I didnt, and I came out slightly behind. I know being short term results oriented is bad, but I still like to question alot of the "nitty" advice here.