Raise flop for free card?
 

Up to this point, the table had appeared fairly weak/tight. With two overcards to my tens on the board and only getting 15.5 to 1 for my two outs, I thought I needed everyone around to make up the bets on the turn if I hit my card. Over thinking?



Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (11.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Re: Raise flop for free card?
 

I tend to be weak/tight myself (yeah, I admit it), but I wouldn't. It's just not likely enough to work with two overcards and four in front of you. I call and then fold UI if there is a lot of action in front on the turn. You're not gonna beat ALL of them.

Re: Raise flop for free card?
 

If you were to get a free card every time you raised here AND when you hit your set of tens it was the best hand every single time AND it would hold up until the river every time, the pot would still have to be 12sb bigger to make raising correct.

I hope this answers your question.

Re: Raise flop for free card?
 

The pot is big enough to peel one off to try to hit the set so the call is okay, but not enough to raise (and if the pot had gotten big enough to raise now from preflop action, you are probably beat by a bigger set even if you did hit another T).

Re: Raise flop for free card?
 

Peeling one to close the action is fine on the flop, but there is almost zero chance that you are in the lead now.

Raising may get you a free card, but even with implied odds, I dont think you make enough back when you hit your 2 outs.

Also, for me, tens is a boarderline raise hand after 4 limpers. Even at a "fairly weak/tight" table.

Re: Raise flop for free card?
 

Peeling this flop is never right.

Re: Raise flop for free card?
 

With all those callers, you're almost definitely behind a Q or A. The pot isn't big enough to chase a 2 outer. I'd want at least 2, probably 3, more SB in the pot to consider a call. Fold on the flop.

Re: Raise flop for free card?
 

You could prolly peel the flop for implied odds, but a fold is good too.
You don't want to raise this flop.

I like the pfr

Re: Raise flop for free card?
 

Ugh, muck this. Your T outs may as well have herpes given the straight possibilities they complete.

Re: Raise flop for free card?
 

Depending on my opponents I either call or fold the flop. Generally I'm folding the turn UI.

Re: Raise flop for free card?
 

This is a clear fold. Two overcards to your TT? If you do catch that set what makes you think one opponent didn't limp with KJo? Play these tens against better flops.

Re: Raise flop for free card?
 

*grunch*

I can understand peeling this flop, but I would likely fold most turn cards except a T, even then I would be wary of the straight.

Re: Raise flop for free card?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Peeling this flop is never right.

[/ QUOTE ]

Never huh?

So you're putting someone on J9 or KJ a large percentage of the time that you hit?

While hitting his set on the turn does not guarantee him a winner, I'd love to see an argument that pushes 15:1 + implied odds to worse than "marginal"...let alone "never".

Re: Raise flop for free card?
 

[ QUOTE ]

I like the pfr

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?
I dont have them available to me now, but I know I've seen the percentages vs 5 opponents that someone will flop a J-A. I cant believe it's less than 20%.

[ QUOTE ]
You could prolly peel the flop for implied odds, but a fold is good too.

[/ QUOTE ]

The raise didnt even price you in to a better than marginal flop call.

First or second I like the raise, but not with that many limpers.

Re: Raise flop for free card?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I like the pfr

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?
I dont have them available to me now, but I know I've seen the percentages vs 5 opponents that someone will flop a J-A. I cant believe it's less than 20%.

[/ QUOTE ]
yeah this is why i don't raise AKs. it's only ace high, and people will flop pairs sooooooooo often on you.

Re: Raise flop for free card?
 

Fold or raise this flop, I lean to fold. Since you were the preflop aggressor, a raise here might get you a free card, but it will not fold ANYBODY that's already called one, and you're going to have to show down the best hand to win.

Oh, and in case you were wondering, you're so far from best hand right now that the light from the best hand won't reach yours for about 500 years.

Re: Raise flop for free card?
 

[ QUOTE ]
First or second I like the raise, but not with that many limpers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. When I'm President, it's going to be a felony to not raise AA-TT preflop in an unraised pot. Smile for your Post Office picture...

Re: Raise flop for free card?
 

grunch

easy flop fold

call isnt great, raise is ridiculous

Re: Raise flop for free card?
 

This "raise for a free card with a hand that has very little chance of improving" crap has got to stop.

Re: Raise flop for free card?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I like the pfr

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?
I dont have them available to me now, but I know I've seen the percentages vs 5 opponents that someone will flop a J-A. I cant believe it's less than 20%.

[/ QUOTE ]
yeah this is why i don't raise AKs. it's only ace high, and people will flop pairs sooooooooo often on you.

[/ QUOTE ]

You coulda just said, "Bram maybe you should run pokerstove with TT and see that even against 5 opponents, your equity is greater than 20%."

Re: Raise flop for free card?
 

I think our two two-gap BDSDs, our closing the action, and absolute position for the rest of the hand push this towards a peel in what is sure to be a big pot.