2/4 NL. Someone explain this to me
 

2/4 NL with a 300 Max buy in. Everyone relevent has around 300, except the original raiser, who has 25.

UTG minraises and 3 guys call. The sb calls and I call with 7s3s in the BB. I had been trying to move away from calling this crap in the BB, but for a minraise in a big pot, I thought it was ok.

Flop is 9s4c5s and the SB leads out for 15. He had been leading a lot with weaker hands, and I thouhgt I could get it heads up with the nearly all in guy behind me, so I raised to 75. UTG called for 17 and the SB called.

Turn was an offsuit 2. (The pot was about 100 and the side pot was 90 or so). The SB checked and I bet 200 of my remaining 225, he moved in and I called.

The river blanked and he won the big side pot with A9(UTG won the small main pot with TT).

After the hand I asked how he could such a call with A9 and he said he was trapping me with the hand. Someone else chimed in and said that against me it was a close decision, but wouldn't tell me why. I have no idea why that is, and feel like I am missing a big concept here. I feel like he donked off all his money with top pair on a low board, but he and others seem to think that against me it was a good play. Why is that, and how can it be applied to other players?

Note that I would play a set(or even an overpair) in the same way. I would raise the flop since I dont want to give a cheap draw, and if he has a made hand, I want to start building the pot. On the turn, I would bet all in, or nearly all in, as the board can become much scarier on the river with a lot of cards(if he has a made hand), and if he has a draw, I want him to fold).

Thanks,
Jason

Re: 2/4 NL. Someone explain this to me
 

Live players can be donkeys.

Re: 2/4 NL. Someone explain this to me
 

This is online

Re: 2/4 NL. Someone explain this to me
 

Online players can be donkeys.

Re: 2/4 NL. Someone explain this to me
 

And is this a turn check?

Re: 2/4 NL. Someone explain this to me
 

Probably, if he calls your raise on the flop, I think he likes his hand. You still gotta beat the shorty anyways, let's make a hand before we go to showdown with 7 high.

Re: 2/4 NL. Someone explain this to me
 

True, the main pot is about equal to the side pot at that point though. Have any relevence?

Re: 2/4 NL. Someone explain this to me
 

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After the hand I asked how he could such a call with A9

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This is online

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This appears to be your mistake.

Re: 2/4 NL. Someone explain this to me
 

You can crush this game without any tricky plays or semi bluffs.

Make your hand, value bet it. If you want to be real tricky, value bet like you are bluffing.

Re: 2/4 NL. Someone explain this to me
 

They suck and their perception of you is wrong, hence little/no respect. Guess this is the definition of why a bad player is bad. BTW the complete idiots always give me trouble too (takes one to know one). [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Re: 2/4 NL. Someone explain this to me
 

why would you bet the turn here?

I can understand if there was no sidepot but essentially you are putting in $225 to win $100. Even if it is a semibluff there are much better times.

Re: 2/4 NL. Someone explain this to me
 

Before we all start calling villain a donk, I think you should give us the most important piece of information for this hand, your table image. If you've been playing like a maniac, it was your mistake for semi-bluffing the turn. If you've been playing like a rock... then let the d0nK bashing begin!

Re: 2/4 NL. Someone explain this to me
 

The flop raise was OKAY, if on the shakey side. However, teh turn bet, in my opinion, simply wasn't worth it.

Flop bet was shakey because you said the UTG had very little money left... therefore, if he had anything, including a good ace high, he'd be justified in calling.

Turn bet was REAL shakey because you're betting over 200 to win the 100 in the side pot there. Take the freecard and hope for the best. Since UTG is all in there, there if very little chance UTG will bluff on the river, for the same reasons that you shouldn't bluff on the turn.

Re: 2/4 NL. Someone explain this to me
 

So, is the conclusion that I should have checked the turn, and that he made a donkey call(as opposed to having a hole in my game that he exploited)?

My image(if anyone cares at that level was tight). I hadn't really dont much, maybe a one or two raises and CBets, but I cant think of any hand that went beyond the flop.

Re: 2/4 NL. Someone explain this to me
 

Just call the flop, why are you raising in this spot on this flop given that UTG is almost certain to call, and there are loads of ppl still to act.

Just call the 15, watch utg go all-in for 17, hope for several callers and if anybody raises, then you might consider pushing when it gets back to you on a big semi-bluff. If nobody raises, then you might see a free river, and if not well you have lots and lots of outs on the turn, so you can even call a pot bet there.

You have a lovely draw, why do you want to shut out callers?

Re: 2/4 NL. Someone explain this to me
 

you called a min raise in BB so it looks like you could have flopped a wild two pair. set is also possible on that draw-y board. given what you actually had i think the play is also correct on turn if you think hell fold.

what theyre giving you is after-the-fact analysis, if you win the big side pot against the UTG AI then your play wouldnt be so poorly critiqued by the table players.

you got caught thats all. they may be downtalking you because they dont want to be bluffed on a later hand.