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- - 3 100/200 hands (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=393038)

I don't really know what's going on in limit poker, but here are 3 hands I played....
I know people don't like multiple hands in same thread, but I have a feeling these hands are all pretty basic.
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hand 1: villain is very loose preflop and I got into call down mode (opens 95o etc). This seems awful. It felt like turn was a fold, but not sure, it probalby is. Can I call down here if no spade hits?

PokerStars 100/200 Hold'em (4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG calls.

Flop: (7 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB
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hand 2: I can't tell if I'm spewing or not...I tend to get really results oriented in my self-analysis. This hand river feels like a bet for some reason. I can't tell if I should just call down and bet when checked to or not? I don't really know what to do as an alternate line here.

PokerStars 100/200 Hold'em (4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB
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hand 3: this hand happened RIGHT after hand 2, and none of the villains have ever played with me before. They might interpret my flop raise as weaker since I waited for turn to raise mid pair on last hand. This river felt like a bet, but I chickened out and I decided to check, is that okay?

PokerStars 100/200 Hold'em (4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 2 folds, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

River: (8.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 8.25 BB

Re: 3 100/200 hands

i fold the turn in hand 1. Without a spade in your hand it is unlikely you have a lot of equity in the pot. You could be drawing to 2 outs vs a lot of hands. I would wait for a better spot to call down the maniac.
Hand 2 i would raise the flop. Too many cards you dont want to see on the turn.
The way you played it i probably bet the river because ace high is calling the river if he called the turn since there are so many busted draws you could have.
Hand 3. No way am i betting the river. There is a 4 straight on the board so it is unlikely he pays off with many worse hands.
You probably have to call the turn because 88 and 99 play the flop and turn just like villian played his hand. Of course he also plays many hands wwhich have you beat, TT+, this way.

Re: 3 100/200 hands

hand 1 I would fold turn also

hand 2 and 3 are inconsistent, i like #2, but think #3 is a river value bet.

Re: 3 100/200 hands

i'm not trying to be a dick like usual, i'm genuinely curious here:

why is a guy who admittedly has little idea what to do in limit poker playing shorthanded 100/200 on stars?

my theory is: young kid with too much money

Re: 3 100/200 hands

Ummm....how is that post possibly not being a dick?

Re: 3 100/200 hands

[ QUOTE ]
i'm not trying to be a dick like usual, i'm genuinely curious here:

why is a guy who admittedly has little idea what to do in limit poker playing shorthanded 100/200 on stars?

my theory is: young kid with too much money

[/ QUOTE ]I dunno, you never take -ev or 0ev spots in your life? It's fun for me to ocassional sit with the big boys and see how I do. I'm pretty sure I've made money overall at 100/200 anyways...probably shortterm variance but oh well. I can't imagine I'm enough of a dog in these games to concern me with the money I lose if I'm enjoying myself.

edit: preflop police on hand 2, you guys think opening on button with T9o is okay? I've been told that was too weak to open with in these games but I don't know if I buy it.

Re: 3 100/200 hands

[ QUOTE ]
Ummm....how is that post possibly not being a dick?

[/ QUOTE ]

not TRYING to be, genuine curiosity

Re: 3 100/200 hands

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i'm not trying to be a dick like usual, i'm genuinely curious here:

why is a guy who admittedly has little idea what to do in limit poker playing shorthanded 100/200 on stars?

my theory is: young kid with too much money

[/ QUOTE ]

he asked for feedback on his hands, not his life.

[/ QUOTE ]

did he really? i thought he asked for feedback on his life. thank you for the clarification. i'm lost without you. you complete me.

Re: 3 100/200 hands

[ QUOTE ]
I dunno, you never take -ev or 0ev spots in your life?

[/ QUOTE ]

sure, i do it often. usually not for high stakes though. you won't see me playing blackjack in a casino for $1000 a hand.

how do you see it as only slightly -ev or even 0 ev though? i'm just going by your own assessment that you "don't really know what's going on in limit poker". if that assessment is true, you're losing a lot of money playing your average 4 handed 100/200 on stars.

Re: 3 100/200 hands

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I dunno, you never take -ev or 0ev spots in your life?

[/ QUOTE ]

sure, i do it often. usually not for high stakes though. you won't see me playing blackjack in a casino for $1000 a hand.

how do you see it as only slightly -ev or even 0 ev though? i'm just going by your own assessment that you "don't really know what's going on in limit poker". if that assessment is true, you're losing a lot of money playing your average 4 handed 100/200 on stars.

[/ QUOTE ]

I personally dont really know what is going on in limit as well... and would guess that in your avg 4 handed 1/2 game on stars i might be as much as -3bb/hr. However if i choose adequate games i can probably be ~0EV, and slowly learn more n more. Also the games can be entertaining. Although i do generally play 30/60 to "learn" instead of 1/2.

Re: 3 100/200 hands

really lame response. you're usually much sharper. you're wrong on this one - your "my theory, young kid with too much money" is preceeded by "not trying to be a dick" - just transparent and foolish.

Re: 3 100/200 hands

Hand 1 you should probably fold to the flop check raise, turn is a super easy muck.

I like raising the turn in hand 2 for a free showdown. A lot of people like to make super thin value bets, but the point is, i really don't know that he is calling this river with a 77, 88 or ace high type hand. TT, JJ, or a queen are more than possible here.

Hand 3 is fine.

Re: 3 100/200 hands

Hand 1 I think you should fold to the flop raise.
Hand 2 is fine, although raising the flop is fine too.
Hand 3 I think the river is though, but I could be convinced either way.

Re: 3 100/200 hands

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I dunno, you never take -ev or 0ev spots in your life?

[/ QUOTE ]

sure, i do it often. usually not for high stakes though. you won't see me playing blackjack in a casino for $1000 a hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never seen Daryn take a -EV spot, and that includes him betting $100 on hard 8 for like half an hour. The guy just can't lose money.

-SmileyEH

Re: 3 100/200 hands

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I dunno, you never take -ev or 0ev spots in your life?

[/ QUOTE ]

sure, i do it often. usually not for high stakes though. you won't see me playing blackjack in a casino for $1000 a hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never seen Daryn take a -EV spot, and that includes him betting $100 on hard 8 for like half an hour. The guy just can't lose money.

-SmileyEH

[/ QUOTE ]

nice, but come on.. the dice were hot!

Re: 3 100/200 hands

Hand 1:
Once you call the turn you are committed to calling the end barring a spade coming. I think you have to call down here u/i.

Hand 2:
I think you played the hand well. Only hand Im worried about would be J's and I don't think he slows down with Jacks... possible but not likely in that game.

Hand 3:
Definitely need to bet on the end. He is certainly paying off with all A-high hands and probably some K-high hands. Definitely need to bet the end.

Re: 3 100/200 hands

If you aren't opening on the button in a 4 handed game at that level you are definitely giving up way too much. I would definitely open with that hand there. You can not limp and folding feels wrong!

Re: 3 100/200 hands

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 3:
Definitely need to bet on the end. He is certainly paying off with all A-high hands and probably some K-high hands. Definitely need to bet the end.

[/ QUOTE ]

The board is T4567. The flush draw got there. Even if he has KQ, the only hands he beats are KJ, K9, K2, QJ, Q9, Q2, J9, and J2. I don't think K high is calling on the end.

[ QUOTE ]
how do you see it as only slightly -ev or even 0 ev though? i'm just going by your own assessment that you "don't really know what's going on in limit poker". if that assessment is true, you're losing a lot of money playing your average 4 handed 100/200 on stars.

[/ QUOTE ]Well I guess I should be more specific in my self-analysis. I USED to be a pretty solid winner at 5/10 6m before I transitioned to NL cash where I have become a demigod. Since then, I haven't played much limit. Since there was 1 pretty bad player and the other two weren't GREAT, I can't imagine I was very -EV. When I said I don't really know what's going on, I kinda meant I wasn't a proven winner at 15/30+ over 10s of thousands of hands, but I feel I have a decent grasp of the game.

onto results:
hand 1: he had Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and my gut during the hand was right (that I should fold this turn), but I was an idiot and called down anyways

hand 2: he pays off with AJo hi

hand 3: He had KQo. I'm really surprised people think K hi might pay off here, I guess I didn't bet because I felt pretty confident that AK hi wouldn't even pay off that river, but now that you guys say even K hi might pay off that river I feel like an idiot for not betting.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
how do you see it as only slightly -ev or even 0 ev though? i'm just going by your own assessment that you "don't really know what's going on in limit poker". if that assessment is true, you're losing a lot of money playing your average 4 handed 100/200 on stars.

[/ QUOTE ]Well I guess I should be more specific in my self-analysis. I USED to be a pretty solid winner at 5/10 6m before I transitioned to NL cash where I have become a demigod.

[/ QUOTE ]

Demigod?

Whoa.

Tex

Re: 3 100/200 hands

Hand 1: i would toss this on the turn unless you've seen him be nuts postflop as well, there's a lot out there and the pot hasn't gotten too big yet.

hand 2: nicely done i'd play it exactly the same.

hand 3: id bet the river. he could easily do this with 88/99 or worse (A7s etc.) given that he just saw you value raise the turn with middle plair ten kicker. so id find a value bet on the river.

also, the guys who regularly play the stars game shorthanded are some very good readers and very aggressive postflop. their preflop play can sometimes be pretty bad by most standards, and they dont make up for it w/ postflop play, but they put you to tough decisions in decent sized pots in and out of position...so if you dont mind the gamble, then go for it as im sure you have the b-r from the NL tables.

GL.

Barron

Re: 3 100/200 hands

You may be right about the K highs not calling... however, I still feel that the hand is a bet on the end. In that game four handed the players don't shut down--they continously fire with a pair. As such I believe TP is good here too often to check.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
how do you see it as only slightly -ev or even 0 ev though? i'm just going by your own assessment that you "don't really know what's going on in limit poker". if that assessment is true, you're losing a lot of money playing your average 4 handed 100/200 on stars.

[/ QUOTE ]Well I guess I should be more specific in my self-analysis. I USED to be a pretty solid winner at 5/10 6m before I transitioned to NL cash where I have become a demigod.

[/ QUOTE ]

Demigod?

Whoa.

Tex

[/ QUOTE ]

i assumed he was jopking [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

no hes not joking, zeebo = demigod in nl