2 hands, advice please
 

Hand 1) 9-handed

Table is pretty loose passive. Flop % is about 50.

Hero is dealt K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] on the button.


Preflop : UTG calls, 2 folds, 3 calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop : (7SB) K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue"> (7 Players) </font>

SB checks, BB checks, <font color="red"> UTG Bets </font> , 3 calls, Hero???

I didn't feel I could protect my hand here or on the turn for that matter. Is this just a simple value raise?

Hand 2)

Same table, same players, also 9-handed. SB had raised in the BB with 99's in an unraised pot with 4 or 5 limpers earlier. Does anyone raise hero's hand preflop?

Hero is dealt K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Preflop : UTG calls, 1 fold, 2 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, Button calls, <font color="red"> SB raises </font> , BB calls.

Flop (14 SB) 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue"> (7 players) </font>

<font color="red">SB bets </font> , 2 calls, 1 fold, 1 call, Hero calls, Button folds.

Turn : (12 BB) 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">5 players </font>

<font color="red"> SB bets </font> , 3 calls, Hero???

I need to work on my play with overcards. Is the pot far too big to fold here?

Thanks for reading.

Re: 2 hands, advice please
 

Raise hand 1. If he's position aware then he likely would have raised preflop if he had a King, and since he didn't I smell a flush or straight value bet. If he's not position aware then his hand range is larger and you're still likely ahead. Raise to hopefully show the blinds the door.

Hand 2: Raise KQs preflop from any position. Hell, raise KQo from any position preflop.

Flop peel is okay--I don't think a continuation raise is going to do any good. No reason to see the river imo.

Re: 2 hands, advice please
 

*grunch*

hand 1:
Raise preflop please!

I'd also raise the flop. Remember, we have position and kicking out 2 others is a good idea

Hand 2:
Easy raise PF, I'd raise this hand in every position. Hand plays differently if you did.

Assuming SB still raised pf, I would have c/c and c/f the turn when it missed.

Crovax

Re: 2 hands, advice please
 

[ QUOTE ]
*grunch*

hand 1:
Raise preflop please!

[/ QUOTE ]

4 limpers and you raise KTo OTB? That's going to need some justification if you read the action correctly.

Edit: you might find this thread interesting.

Re: 2 hands, advice please
 

I just raise the flop in hand 1. We probably have the best hand and will be giving the field 5:1 odds with the prospect of further action.

Hand 2 is an easy pf raise. I don't mind the flop call with only one player to act behind you. When you don't improve and SB leads again after getting 4 calls on the flop you have to think you're drawing slim most of the time, but we only need 3 clean outs and there are a number of hands SB could have that we beat. The other opponents could be on all sorts of things.

I'd consider making a loose call due to the pot size but don't feel like going though hand combinations just now to see how close to correct it is.

Re: 2 hands, advice please
 

[ QUOTE ]
4 limpers and you raise KTo OTB? That's going to need some justification if you read the action correctly

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you misread the hand. One limper on a loose table, this raise should be standard.

Re: 2 hands, advice please
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
4 limpers and you raise KTo OTB? That's going to need some justification if you read the action correctly

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you misread the hand. One limper on a loose table, this raise should be standard.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
UTG calls, 2 folds, 3 calls, Hero calls

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not UTG limping, player 2 folding and player 3 calling.

UTG, MP1, MP2 and the cutoff limped. 4 limpers.

Re: 2 hands, advice please
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
4 limpers and you raise KTo OTB? That's going to need some justification if you read the action correctly

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you misread the hand. One limper on a loose table, this raise should be standard.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
UTG calls, 2 folds, 3 calls, Hero calls

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not UTG limping, player 2 folding and player 3 calling.

UTG, MP1, MP2 and the cutoff limped. 4 limpers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, I did misread it. Then that's an easy limp. I still stand by the raise on the flop.

Crovax

Re: 2 hands, advice please
 

Bonesy-

Yes, the flop raise in hand 1 is an easy rasie for value. Don't worry about protecting your hand here, you can't.

Hand 2 is a super EZ pf raise for value. Super easy, your hand is awesome in the face of all those loose limpers. Folding on the turn is ok though.

Re: 2 hands, advice please
 

[ QUOTE ]
Folding on the turn is ok though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? We're getting 12:1 closing the action, surely our overcards are worth at least 3~4 outs?

Re: 2 hands, advice please
 

I'd say they're only worth two. Diamonds are no good for us close to 100% of the time so that leaves us with 4, then I think reverse domination takes us to 2, maybe 2.5 but not 3 I don't think. How many people at these levels limp in with KT or QT? Lots and lots.

Re: 2 hands, advice please
 

I see it. thanks

Re: 2 hands, advice please
 

Hand 1/ Raise or fold, just calling would be really weak. Raise since you hopefully make the blinds fold and it also gives you a better idea of how much UTG likes his hand. If he 3-bets I would put him on a better king.
Hand 2/ Yes, I raise this pre-flop everytime from MP/LP, EP I would consider limping at a loose table and raising if tight. On the turn you're geting 12:1, which I don't think is enough considering that you're probably behind SB even if you hit a king or a queen. I'd fold, but it's close, I definetly wouldn't fold AK.

Re: 2 hands, advice please
 

Thanks for all the replies. I may have posted hand two incorrectly causing confusion. On the turn I was getting 16 to 1 as the SB bet and three players called before me. I posted this hand because I felt like a jerk folding on the turn. A king hit on the river and I would have won. SB had 99's. One player had AT and another had K5. If I remember Ed Miller wrote a post stating that one of the biggest flaws in SSHE players was folding incorrectly in big pots. I'm probably being results oriented but at 16 to 1 I only need somewhere less than 3 outs to call.

Re: 2 hands, advice please
 

[ QUOTE ]
On the turn I was getting 16 to 1 as the SB bet and three players called before me. I posted this hand because I felt like a jerk folding on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? You have King high right now. SB is indicating he can beat at least that. Your overcards would be 3 outs total and a call would be just baaaaaaarely profitable (46/3=6.52% chance of winning when you're putting in 6.25% of the pot), but I can't even give you those three because the diamonds are tainted. If the rake is triggered at 15BB you have to subtract one as well, so even your straight pot odds would have been short. Further your BDSD is broke. It's a muck.