I get criticized for this play - you decide
 

PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, BB folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, SB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: (4.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
SB has Kh 9d (three of a kind, kings).
Hero has 7c Ac (flush, ace high).
Outcome: Hero wins 8.50 BB. </font>

Villain gets mad and says to me:

"that was a horrible hand"

"i dont think it was possible to play that any more wrongly"

One of the table agrees with him . . .

*********************

I suppose I could have raised preflop, but I can't see mucking.

On the flop, I bet it in last position to see if I can take it down or build a pot with my nut flush draw + ace overcard.

When SB raises me to get heads up, I put him on top pair. I re-raise to try and get a free card thinking I may have 12 outs and close to 50% pot equity even if he caps. I certainly can't fold.

When another K hits the turn and he checks, I can't bet given my read. I take the free card.

The river played itself.

Personally, I think he played it bad after his initial flop check-raise, which I thought was good.

If I am him, I consider capping the flop, and certainly lead out on the turn. I mean, was he going for 2 check-raises in a row? If we are still playing when the 3rd club hits, I check-call the river with his hand.

Thoughts?

Re: I get criticized for this play - you decide
 

Agreed

Re: I get criticized for this play - you decide
 

bin,

I think PF is fine as long as you can expect at least a couple people to limp behind you and a raise isn't likely. If the tables has been playing tight and/or agressive, I think this is raise or fold and is highly situation dependant (with folding being right most of the time).

I think your flop bet is nearly mandatory, and I like the free card 3-bet. With this board, villian isn't likely to have made a hand that he likes enough to cap the flop and lead the turn. This is the type of free card play that I need to make more often.

The rest of the streets are, as you said, standard.

FWIW, I think villian played poorly. CRing that flop is a bad idea because he has no idea if anyone will bet or where it will come from, and the board is draw-heavy. He should have bet the flop, bet the turn, bet the river. Sure, he would have lost more money, but he wouldn't have let you draw so cheaply.

Re: I get criticized for this play - you decide
 

Villain is a whiner. Well played.

Re: I get criticized for this play - you decide
 

Preflop really depends on the table, if it is playing loose I can dig the limp, but if it's tighter I'd raise (or fold if the players are fairly skilled/aggressive).

The only Q on the flop is to 3-bet or not. You've probably got 11 outs or so weighted (I think the A is good most of the time), so if he's not terribly aggressive you can get a free card often and that would be very nice, and you have a fair amount of equity anyway.

Turn is pretty standard, I don't want to get c/r'ed by a king, and if he only has a J he might do it anyway, not giving you credit for trips or whatever, so I don't think we have much fold equity.

River, standard.

[ QUOTE ]
Villain gets mad and says to me:

"that was a horrible hand"

"i dont think it was possible to play that any more wrongly"

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps he was referring to his own play.

Re: I get criticized for this play - you decide
 

[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, BB folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, SB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: (4.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
SB has Kh 9d (three of a kind, kings).
Hero has 7c Ac (flush, ace high).
Outcome: Hero wins 8.50 BB. </font>

Villain gets mad and says to me:

"that was a horrible hand"

"i dont think it was possible to play that any more wrongly"

One of the table agrees with him . . .

*********************

I suppose I could have raised preflop, but I can't see mucking.

On the flop, I bet it in last position to see if I can take it down or build a pot with my nut flush draw + ace overcard.

When SB raises me to get heads up, I put him on top pair. I re-raise to try and get a free card thinking I may have 12 outs and close to 50% pot equity even if he caps. I certainly can't fold.

When another K hits the turn and he checks, I can't bet given my read. I take the free card.

The river played itself.

Personally, I think he played it bad after his initial flop check-raise, which I thought was good.

If I am him, I consider capping the flop, and certainly lead out on the turn. I mean, was he going for 2 check-raises in a row? If we are still playing when the 3rd club hits, I check-call the river with his hand.

Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

at party 5-10, A7s from MP1 is trash. Easy fold. See, you don't want to be raising this, because you will get 3 bet alot. Also, you don't want to limp, because you will get isolated, and check/fold the flop alot.

Post flop looks ok. I'd probably just call the c/r instead of going for a free card play, since he will probably cap/bet the turn, or call/donk the turn, more than he calls, and checks. But that's on ok move imo.

Re: I get criticized for this play - you decide
 

besides the preflop call, i think the hand played out perfectly.

to open limp with Axs in MP is kinda weak. if anyone raises behind you, you are in trouble. if no one calls behind you, its a very marginal hand at best. if you flop the flush draw and its HU, doesnt pay off very well either and sucks to miss the draw and c/f the river.

Re: I get criticized for this play - you decide
 

[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, BB folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, SB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: (4.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
SB has Kh 9d (three of a kind, kings).
Hero has 7c Ac (flush, ace high).
Outcome: Hero wins 8.50 BB. </font>

Villain gets mad and says to me:

"that was a horrible hand"

"i dont think it was possible to play that any more wrongly"

One of the table agrees with him . . .

*********************

I suppose I could have raised preflop, but I can't see mucking.

On the flop, I bet it in last position to see if I can take it down or build a pot with my nut flush draw + ace overcard.

When SB raises me to get heads up, I put him on top pair. I re-raise to try and get a free card thinking I may have 12 outs and close to 50% pot equity even if he caps. I certainly can't fold.

When another K hits the turn and he checks, I can't bet given my read. I take the free card.

The river played itself.

Personally, I think he played it bad after his initial flop check-raise, which I thought was good.

If I am him, I consider capping the flop, and certainly lead out on the turn. I mean, was he going for 2 check-raises in a row? If we are still playing when the 3rd club hits, I check-call the river with his hand.

Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

Who cares what one or two people at the table say. And is wrongly even a word?

Re: I get criticized for this play - you decide
 

I don't think either of you played the hand badly. You could have raised PF but whatever. And taking the free card was nice as well.

Re: I get criticized for this play - you decide
 

You played this great, just let the guy whine, he's mad because he obviously got completely outplayed.

I had a guy at my table today criticize some guy for raising AA from the BB when 6 people limped. His arguement was you are no longer favored against 6 people. His definition of favored was +50%. Even after it was explained to him that he doesnt have to win over 50% of the time since his money is only 1/7th of the pot, he still didn't agree.

Re: I get criticized for this play - you decide
 

I love it when people try to teach opponents how to play poker in a chat box.
I usually never chat about anything other than jokes and stuff, but sometimes...

I was asked by a player the other day if I was going to continue to blow off all my chips.
(I had been raising a lot preflop and getting stoned). He was benefitting two seats to my left.

Me: "what do you care?"

Villain: "you don't know when to check or when to fold."

Me: "i had a good hand you [censored]."

Villain: "fine, keep pushing it and i will have all your chips."

Someone else at the table: "sometimes that really aggressive play can win a lot. it just depends."

Then they all got into some long winded [censored] 'poker theory' discussion.
It made me laugh and relax a little about running poorly.

Re: I get criticized for this play - you decide
 

preflop was close, it depends on the tendencies of the players left to act. This can be a raise, fold, or limp given certain conditions. Other than that, you know how to play postflop, they dont. NH. This is an easy flop bet/3bet for a free card. Take it on the turn baby. Ok, you hit and he bets into you like a downy. Raise it up you have the best hand.
PS. Don't listen to table coaches. They are all awful and misinformed.

Re: I get criticized for this play - you decide
 

[ QUOTE ]
You played this great, just let the guy whine, he's mad because he obviously got completely outplayed.

I had a guy at my table today criticize some guy for raising AA from the BB when 6 people limped. His arguement was you are no longer favored against 6 people. His definition of favored was +50%. Even after it was explained to him that he doesnt have to win over 50% of the time since his money is only 1/7th of the pot, he still didn't agree.

[/ QUOTE ]
why explain it to him, just say thanks ill remember that and let him miss value with his monster hands. You make money when he doesnt.

Re: I get criticized for this play - you decide
 

Is it possible to play this any better postflop than you did? I don't think so.

Flop: You have 9 outs to the nuts and possibly another 3 for top pair, so even if you don't get a free card your flop 3-bet will cost you very little.

Turn: Plays itself.

River: Plays itself.

Re: I get criticized for this play - you decide
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You played this great, just let the guy whine, he's mad because he obviously got completely outplayed.

I had a guy at my table today criticize some guy for raising AA from the BB when 6 people limped. His arguement was you are no longer favored against 6 people. His definition of favored was +50%. Even after it was explained to him that he doesnt have to win over 50% of the time since his money is only 1/7th of the pot, he still didn't agree.

[/ QUOTE ]
why explain it to him, just say thanks ill remember that and let him miss value with his monster hands. You make money when he doesnt.

[/ QUOTE ]

I complete agree, but I never said I was the one explaining it to him.

What actually happened was the BB who raised was the live one at the table. I think he was 57/20/1 at the time this happened, and I was 2 to his left. Whenever some moron decides to tell a fish he's making bad plays, I usually come to the fish's defense. In this case I jumped up to 15/30 just because I got a seat to the fish's left. So I really didn't want him to leave or start playing better.

Some other guy at the table did the math for him, I just said "I'm raising 6 limpers with AA all day long."

Re: I get criticized for this play - you decide
 

Pre-flop is table dependent. I'd probably open-raise before I'd open limp with it, I don't absolutely hate the limp.

Flop is nicely done. You definitely have him guessing a bit here as shown by his turn check. I don't like his c/r here at all. He should have just bet out.

Your opponent screwed up the turn pretty badly, too. Even after the flop 3-bet of his c/r, he really needs to bet here. Giving a free card is crazy talk. You just, rightly, took the free card you'd paid for.

The river is the first post-flop street your opponent doesn't completely mis-play. Your play is fine.

Re: I get criticized for this play - you decide
 

i hate the preflop limp. it's definetly not something that would be reccomended in SSH or any poker book really and even though i agree it is a table dependent hand, i think that no matter what you do it is a raise or fold type of hand ( the vast majority of the time it being a fold ).

Re: I get criticized for this play - you decide
 

Raise PF, there is nothing else wrong with this hand, vllian is just pissed he did not get to c/r u on the turn.

Re: I get criticized for this play - you decide
 

I like this hand a lot. MP1 is as late as I would ever consider limping with A7s. And I would only do that if I had some loosies behind me. Some tables I fold that hand others I'll raise it. 1st in at MP1 is a very tough position to say what the best play is what that hand though. Very situational. When it's colse I tend to raise so I can loosen up my image and set up bigger wins with premium holdings in future hands.

Postflop is flawless.