Table coach berates me over $8.50
 

Even though this is a NL200 hand, I am going to post it here. The hand itself is unremarkable. The thoughts of the guy who berated me are what leads me to post it in SSNL.

$1/$2 NLHE 6-handed

Hero ($300)
BB ($18.50)
MP ($98)
CO ($265)
Button ($325)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $1.
1 fold, MP calls $2, CO calls $2, Button calls $2, Hero calls $1, BB checks.

Flop: ($9.50) A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(5 players) </font>
Hero bets $8, BB calls $8, 3 folds.

Turn: ($25.75) T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
Hero bets $8.50 (putting BB all-in), BB folds.

And then I showed my quads. Table coach/fishy player in MP starts in on teaching me. 'Dude, you had quads', 'Why'd you bet there, let him hit his hand,' 'I can't believe you bet that, that was just dumb, if a diamond comes...if an ace comes....etc. etc. etc.'

And I wondered how many people here would check that hand on the turn?? If your first inclination is to check the turn here, reexamine. It'll help your game a little bit.

Re: Table coach berates me over $8.50
 

i dont know how to reply to this.

Re: Table coach berates me over $8.50
 

Just ignore that stupid table coach. If he does indeed have any piece he is certainly calling for about 1/3 of the pot, and if you check and he misses you lose that value you could of gained. Just ignore table coaches in general, and dont show your hand next time.

Re: Table coach berates me over $8.50
 

Nice post. I'll let someone else post the moral to your story [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Table coach berates me over $8.50
 

Nice hand.

Re: Table coach berates me over $8.50
 

The guy coaching seems silly. Though in reality, I don't think it matters much if you bet the turn or the river. You're hand is nearly unbeatable. But if he would call $8 on the flop, I don't see why $8.50 would scare him away on the turn (though obviously the 10 could have scared him.)

If your stack was deeper, then I would argue you have to bet the turn. But considering you only have 1 small bet left... I suppose in this particular case, it couldn't hurt to check it... maybe you get lucky and induce a bluff?

But the coach is really overreacting.

Re: Table coach berates me over $8.50
 

[ QUOTE ]
i dont know how to reply to this.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
And I wondered how many people here would check that hand on the turn?? If your first inclination is to check the turn here, reexamine. It'll help your game a little bit.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you would have bet the turn there, no need to reply. If you would have checked the turn there, think about it and plug that leak. That is all. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Table coach berates me over $8.50
 

[ QUOTE ]
The guy coaching seems silly. Though in reality, I don't think it matters much if you bet the turn or the river. You're hand is nearly unbeatable. But if he would call $8 on the flop, I don't see why $8.50 would scare him away on the turn (though obviously the 10 could have scared him.)

If your stack was deeper, then I would argue you have to bet the turn. But considering you only have 1 small bet left... I suppose in this particular case, it couldn't hurt to check it... maybe you get lucky and induce a bluff?

But the coach is really overreacting.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree, there is a flush draw on the flop, why check the turn and let him fold if he misses. Charge him on the turn, just dont price him out, price him in. 3-1 looks good to me, which coincidentally is how much villain had left.

Re: Table coach berates me over $8.50
 

[ QUOTE ]
The guy coaching seems silly. Though in reality, I don't think it matters much if you bet the turn or the river. You're hand is nearly unbeatable. But if he would call $8 on the flop, I don't see why $8.50 would scare him away on the turn (though obviously the 10 could have scared him.)

If your stack was deeper, then I would argue you have to bet the turn. But considering you only have 1 small bet left... I suppose in this particular case, it couldn't hurt to check it... maybe you get lucky and induce a bluff?

But the coach is really overreacting.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't know what BB is calling with on the flop that he's folding on the turn. But my understanding of the idea at play here is that it doesn't matter if you bet the turn or river here if he has an A, as he is likely getting his $$ in. However, if he has diamonds, if you bet here, he will usually call. If you wait, he will only put his money in the 20% of the time that he hits his flush on the river. Much more +EV to bet now.

Re: Table coach berates me over $8.50
 

I think this is really people dependent and also, without knowing what the opponent has, completely random.

A couple of things to consider (imo)... a lot of people get scared by a paired board. A lot of people drawing to a flush realize they might be drawing dead once the board pairs. He might not pay to get his flush... but if he gets there for free, maybe he won't fold it.

The person might have an underpair and wanted to 'test' if the hero really had an ace. He might bet if checked to. He might bet if the hero shows weakness anyways.

Personally, I only check with a set if I know an aggressor after me will definitely bet. I'm only saying that in this case, with the hero's stack so short, I don't know if it makes a hell of difference what he does.

Without knowing the villain's hand, we can't say for certain if he's more likely to call a bet on the turn or the river.

If there were 2 deep stacks, I would say 'build build build' that pot.

Re: Table coach berates me over $8.50
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The guy coaching seems silly. Though in reality, I don't think it matters much if you bet the turn or the river. You're hand is nearly unbeatable. But if he would call $8 on the flop, I don't see why $8.50 would scare him away on the turn (though obviously the 10 could have scared him.)

If your stack was deeper, then I would argue you have to bet the turn. But considering you only have 1 small bet left... I suppose in this particular case, it couldn't hurt to check it... maybe you get lucky and induce a bluff?

But the coach is really overreacting.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't know what BB is calling with on the flop that he's folding on the turn. But my understanding of the idea at play here is that it doesn't matter if you bet the turn or river here if he has an A, as he is likely getting his $$ in. However, if he has diamonds, if you bet here, he will usually call. If you wait, he will only put his money in the 20% of the time that he hits his flush on the river. Much more +EV to bet now.

[/ QUOTE ]

That makes a lot of sense. My first inclination would have been to check the turn, but this seems better. Do you still lead the turn if stacks are deeper?

Re: Table coach berates me over $8.50
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The guy coaching seems silly. Though in reality, I don't think it matters much if you bet the turn or the river. You're hand is nearly unbeatable. But if he would call $8 on the flop, I don't see why $8.50 would scare him away on the turn (though obviously the 10 could have scared him.)

If your stack was deeper, then I would argue you have to bet the turn. But considering you only have 1 small bet left... I suppose in this particular case, it couldn't hurt to check it... maybe you get lucky and induce a bluff?

But the coach is really overreacting.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't know what BB is calling with on the flop that he's folding on the turn. But my understanding of the idea at play here is that it doesn't matter if you bet the turn or river here if he has an A, as he is likely getting his $$ in. However, if he has diamonds, if you bet here, he will usually call. If you wait, he will only put his money in the 20% of the time that he hits his flush on the river. Much more +EV to bet now.

[/ QUOTE ]

That makes a lot of sense. My first inclination would have been to check the turn, but this seems better. Do you still lead the turn if stacks are deeper?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, this is not the type of board to slowplay, either villain has a hand that will call your bets, or he has a hand that wont. If he does, might as well build the pot to win more on river, and if he doesnt, [censored] him. If the board were something like 10102 rainbow and we had 1010 then a slowplay MAY be correct.

Re: Table coach berates me over $8.50
 

I'd bet here also, but I'd just like to make sure my line of thinking is correct.

In general you want to bet the turn here so that if a villain calls he's priced into the hand, correct? In this case BB only had $8.50 left so he'd be all-in but even if he had more, you'd bet the turn to get him committed to the pot so he's likely to call a river bet as well?

Re: Table coach berates me over $8.50
 

Assuming villian is on a flush draw, he will pay to see the river - he's getting reasonable odds. Bet the turn.

If you check the turn and the river is a blank, which it will be ~75% of the time, you're not getting anymore money out of him.

HOH2 spells this out quite nicely.

Re: Table coach berates me over $8.50
 

What the hell do you know???
I had QUADS!!!
You can teach me how to play when you get quads!!
I'm the best, ya see. I got QUADS!!!



One more reason I rarely keep chat on.

You played it fine, table coach was a shmoo..
Villian wasn't calling anything that didnt pair his kicker or make him trips anyway, the T didn't scare him off, bet was right. Fastplay is the new slowplay anyway...

Re: Table coach berates me over $8.50
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The guy coaching seems silly. Though in reality, I don't think it matters much if you bet the turn or the river. You're hand is nearly unbeatable. But if he would call $8 on the flop, I don't see why $8.50 would scare him away on the turn (though obviously the 10 could have scared him.)

If your stack was deeper, then I would argue you have to bet the turn. But considering you only have 1 small bet left... I suppose in this particular case, it couldn't hurt to check it... maybe you get lucky and induce a bluff?

But the coach is really overreacting.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't know what BB is calling with on the flop that he's folding on the turn. But my understanding of the idea at play here is that it doesn't matter if you bet the turn or river here if he has an A, as he is likely getting his $$ in. However, if he has diamonds, if you bet here, he will usually call. If you wait, he will only put his money in the 20% of the time that he hits his flush on the river. Much more +EV to bet now.

[/ QUOTE ]

That makes a lot of sense. My first inclination would have been to check the turn, but this seems better. Do you still lead the turn if stacks are deeper?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I'm still gonna lead based on the same principle. Here you have to be more careful to price the BB in, since he's not down to $8.50, but checking really accomplishes nothing in the deep stack scenario (unless you have a read that this guy is aggressive and will take a shot once you show weakness).

Re: Table coach berates me over $8.50
 

Don't show your hand [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Table coach berates me over $8.50
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The guy coaching seems silly. Though in reality, I don't think it matters much if you bet the turn or the river. You're hand is nearly unbeatable. But if he would call $8 on the flop, I don't see why $8.50 would scare him away on the turn (though obviously the 10 could have scared him.)

If your stack was deeper, then I would argue you have to bet the turn. But considering you only have 1 small bet left... I suppose in this particular case, it couldn't hurt to check it... maybe you get lucky and induce a bluff?

But the coach is really overreacting.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't know what BB is calling with on the flop that he's folding on the turn. But my understanding of the idea at play here is that it doesn't matter if you bet the turn or river here if he has an A, as he is likely getting his $$ in. However, if he has diamonds, if you bet here, he will usually call. If you wait, he will only put his money in the 20% of the time that he hits his flush on the river. Much more +EV to bet now.

[/ QUOTE ]

That makes a lot of sense. My first inclination would have been to check the turn, but this seems better. Do you still lead the turn if stacks are deeper?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I'm still gonna lead based on the same principle. Here you have to be more careful to price the BB in, since he's not down to $8.50, but checking really accomplishes nothing in the deep stack scenario (unless you have a read that this guy is aggressive and will take a shot once you show weakness).

[/ QUOTE ]
How much will you lead turn given a Deep stack situation (villain covers)? 1/2 pot? more?

Re: Table coach berates me over $8.50
 

Deep stacked, 1/2 pot looks good, looks like a I fold to further aggresion bet. Maybe slightly less than 1/2 pot is better if villain is aggro and notices these things, if he is a calling station 1/2 is nice.

Re: Table coach berates me over $8.50
 

One question I have is why show the quads? What is gained by this?

Re: Table coach berates me over $8.50
 

[ QUOTE ]
One question I have is why show the quads? What is gained by this?

[/ QUOTE ]

being braggadocious

Re: Table coach berates me over $8.50
 

I wouldev bet 2 or 3 here