A8s....standard?
 

I don't even know whether this is interesting. I just noted it at the time.

I've been isolating MP2 (51/5/1) quite a bit because he's a fish and he may be getting annoyed.
CO (52/11/.7) is a calling station from what I can tell over 4 orbits and will call down to the river with anything that has a chance at making a descent hand but will fold the river if he doesn't make the winning hand. He knows how to throw away a hopeless case. His stats may seem out of whack but he's had it folded to him a few times.
BB (60/4/.5)however cannot throw away a hopeless case and is just as likely to have the nuts without raising as he is to have 32 on a double paired board.
I gave him credit for a descent hand preflop.


Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 caps</font>, Hero calls, CO calls, BB calls.

Flop: (16.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO calls, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, CO calls, BB calls.

Turn: (14.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO calls, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, CO calls, BB calls.

River: (26.25 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls, CO calls, BB folds.

Final Pot: 29.25 BB

Re: A8s....standard?
 

The one thing you could have considered doing was calling the flop to raise the turn. A raise on this flop is not going to fold any hands you want to fold, and you open yourself up to being 3-bet.

After the flop I can't see any other way to play it and that river card sucks.

Re: A8s....standard?
 

I think you should cap the turn.

Re: A8s....standard?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The one thing you could have considered doing was calling the flop to raise the turn. A raise on this flop is not going to fold any hands you want to fold, and you open yourself up to being 3-bet.

After the flop I can't see any other way to play it and that river card sucks.

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We really want to give random hands a cheap one? I'd like to get as much value as we can, our equity has a small edge but not a huge one, and that can disipate on the turn. Not really many cards we like apart from the A and maybe a deuce.

Re: A8s....standard?
 

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We really want to give random hands a cheap one?

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What hands are these jokers folding to a raise? They're getting 19-1 when you raise. Maybe they fold QJo?

Re: A8s....standard?
 

Doesnt matter, only matters if our equity is greater. We love for them to call either way, but prefer them to pay as much as possible.

Re: A8s....standard?
 

fold to the cap preflop. MP2 is passive and he is probably not [censored] around here. you are probably looking at AA or KK.

on the turn you should cap it. you are getting 3-1 on your money if they all call. the only logical hand that beats you is AA and two of the As are accounted for. you are looking at other As and/or a tilting idiot most of the time

Re: A8s....standard?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We really want to give random hands a cheap one?

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What hands are these jokers folding to a raise? They're getting 19-1 when you raise. Maybe they fold QJo?

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pretty much. i think you gotta give those random overcard hands a chance to fold. for two bets they might give up.

Re: A8s....standard?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Doesnt matter, only matters if our equity is greater. We love for them to call either way, but prefer them to pay as much as possible.

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it definitely does matter. the thing no one ever talks about in these situations is "what are our opponents' implied odds." in a pot this big, it sure will be tough to fold a flopped TPTK on the turn if QJ spikes a pair. the odds we offer them are the pot odds PLUS the bets they will take from us.

i know you are agreeing with me about shutting them out, but it definitely does matter

Re: A8s....standard?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think you should cap the turn.

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Re: A8s....standard?
 

Even if these guys are crazy, ONE of them isn't [censored] around with the 3-bet and cap pre-flop. A8s is a big underdog to anything they would even remotely three-bet and cap with loosely. That said, I don't even like the flop raise -- There are 6 overpairs to this board and based on the pre-flop action I have no reason to think I'm ahead with TPTK here. You did get lucky on the turn, though, and should probably cap it. River sucks, though, and you played it fine.

Re: A8s....standard?
 

The pot was huge on the flop. If your reads on the CO, Botton, and BB are correct, they are coming if you raise. They will be getting almost 10 to 1 on thier call, and your hand is very vunerable if it is best. There is no good way to protect your hand on the flop. If you catch a favorable turn card, you can then raise and cut down the odds on weak draws. If these guys are going to see the river anyway, you want to manipulate the pot odds they get to be as far from correct as possible.

I like the river call, if the people behind you missed thier hands, they might overcall on the river for the heck of it, gaining you an extra two bets if your hand is best and save you two bets if MP2 has you beat.

Review the secton about protecting your hand in SSHE, "When a flop raise will not protect your hand" For a more detailed discussion on this topic.

Re: A8s....standard?
 

The flop raise is ok, depending on how annoyed MP1 is. I am a little worried about his pf cap. Looks like AK, AA, KK, QQ.

I think you should cap the turn, you are now only behind AA.
Who knows, maybe someone will fold, which only helps.

That river card is terrible. Hope he has QQ and call

Re: A8s....standard?
 

:grunch:

MP2 limp/caps preflop putting his range to about AA or KK assuming he isn't annoyed and going crazy.

You have to raise him on the flop, just to see if he was telling the truth preflop.

The turn raise is a little iffy because MP2 doesn't slow down and you are only ahead if he has KK and not AA.

I would almost fold on the river because you are losing to his limp/cap preflop range. I would only call if I thought he was tilting.

Re: A8s....standard?
 

Ok, I'm gonna go out on a limb, here. I'm not giving any of these jackasses credit for anything based on the preflop action. MP2 may be on tilt. BB is a doofus who may just be saying, "Wheee! Let's build us a POT!" (I can't imagine why you're giving him credit preflop, given your read.) And CO is a "calling station" that somehow manages to raise 10% of the hands he sees (and plays 40% more than that!), but didn't raise here.

So, on the flop you're behind an unlikely 2-pair and an unlikely set. Cap it for value with 3 opponents, since you're holding the card that reverse-dominates ace-good-kicker right now.

On the turn you've fixed the 2-pair problem, and now you've just roped in AK/AQ/AJ/AT/A7, etc. Cap that one, too.

On the river, MP2 hasn't let up off the bet/raise button all hand, so do we really think he's got a flush? He's tilting! The only thing I'm really worried about from him is AK. Raise the river to try and scare out the unlikely but possible sets of 7s and 8s held by CO (also you'd be calling a raise, anyway, so you might as well be the one to do it) (oh, and you clearly want to update your reads on CO and BB...looks like you've got 'em switched around).

Results prediction: MP2 had QQ and a small stroke when he showed 3rd-best hand; CO held AT; Hero's hand is good. Was I close?

(How's that for some LAGtastic advice [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]?)

Re: A8s....standard?
 

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I think you should cap the turn.

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Re: A8s....standard?
 

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We really want to give random hands a cheap one?

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What hands are these jokers folding to a raise? They're getting 19-1 when you raise. Maybe they fold QJo?

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pretty much. i think you gotta give those random overcard hands a chance to fold. for two bets they might give up.

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OK. I think sometimes I wait for the turn too much.