O/8 Playing for High/Bet the flop?
 

I have K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

There are seven people seeing the flop, everyone limping in, I've the first to act. The flop is A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Cappalletti's is to bet high hands, even if they don't look like they hit, so I bet, although I may be misapplying his advice, since no low is possible on this flop.

Is this a good bet? I need a Q or some kind of runner/runner it looks like. So 3 clean outs, and a couple of more, enough to take a card off, but I don't want to be raised. There's no low possible, so no need to clear out the riff raff.

Is there any good reason to bet here? It looks to me like checking would be better.

(Note: this has is from the early round of a tourney; the stacks don't matter. I'm posting it here because I thought I'd get better feedback as most of the tourney players play hold 'em.)

Re: O/8 Playing for High/Bet the flop?
 

The ace counts as a low card, so there is a low possibility on this flop (from runner runner). With seven people in the hand there is no way you can bet or even call one with this hand. There's way too many hands (including junk) that should have hit this flop. There aren't many situations in which you can ever bluff first to act seven handed (in any game)...

Re: O/8 Playing for High/Bet the flop?
 

Jesus christ, fold.

Re: O/8 Playing for High/Bet the flop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Is this a good bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

The situation you are describing is not the same as a regular Omaha-8 ring game.

Some of the regular Texas hold 'em players will think any two spades are good here. Some will think QJXY, J8XY, or even 87XY are good hands after this flop. And bad as all those hands are after this flop, they're better than your hand after this flop.

[ QUOTE ]
Is there any good reason to bet here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure. You could possibly win the pot by betting.

But that's not likely given your description of your opponents.

[ QUOTE ]
It looks to me like checking would be better.

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Yes. If nobody bets and you catch a miracle non-spade queen, you can bet on the next round. More likely somebody will bet this round and then you should fold. (This does not seem a good spot to bluff).

Just my opinion.

Buzz

Re: O/8 Playing for High/Bet the flop?
 

Better idea. Fold pre-flop (not knowing stakes, position, read on players, etc.).

Re: O/8 Playing for High/Bet the flop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Better idea. Fold pre-flop (not knowing stakes, position, read on players, etc.).

[/ QUOTE ]

Niss - Yes. Better idea.

(1) It's a marginal (borderline sub-marginal) hand.
(2) Hero is out of position.

tewall - Position is not as big a deal in limit as in pot-limit, but Hero should not want a raise behind him here and with all high cards, there's a better chance of opponents having the low cards some like to raise with.

twwall - I don't think you're misapplying Cappelletti's advice here. As I read his section on "Driving High in High-Low Omaha" (pages 126-129), he would have you bet this flop.

In my humble opinion, Cappeletti has some good ideas one can incorporate into one's game, but although I've tried to use this particular concept, it doesn't seem as though I've had much success with it.

However, betting without a proper flop fit does disguise your hand and gets you more action when you do have a good fit with the flop. So maybe if you look at the overall picture (all the hands yet to come in the session) you derive some benefit from betting here.

But I agree with Niss that this particular high-only hand, under these particular game conditions, might be better folded pre-flop from early position.

Buzz

Re: O/8 Playing for High/Bet the flop?
 

High Hands with a 9 in em suck, well almost all hands with a 9 in em suck. Fold preflop. "Always" bet the flop with a high only hand, when only one or less low cards flops.

Re: O/8 Playing for High/Bet the flop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
"Always" bet the flop with a high only hand, when only one or less low cards flops.

[/ QUOTE ]
Is this a sarcastic comment?

Re: O/8 Playing for High/Bet the flop?
 

Nope, SOP that should be adjusted for the table.

Re: O/8 Playing for High/Bet the flop?
 

Good luck.

Re: O/8 Playing for High/Bet the flop?
 

Ouch, I thought the part about the 9 was spot on. Some people play Omaha becuase they don't like the aggresiveness needed in holdem. Just think that if you are playing high only and the flop comes high only you should always try bet. If people always know what you have you aren't ever gonna win a tourney.

Re: O/8 Playing for High/Bet the flop?
 

Clear check-fold.
You're way behind more than one person right now and you're basically hoping for a non-spade Q. That's three outs that may be no good by the river.

Re: O/8 Playing for High/Bet the flop?
 

I would play a hand with a 9 in it from late position. For example, 9TJQ from the button, with many limpers.

However, I would not always bet a two-high, one-low flop. For example, if a KK2 flop checked to me with that hand, I would not bet.

Re: O/8 Playing for High/Bet the flop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would play a hand with a 9 in it from late position. For example, 9TJQ from the button, with many limpers.

However, I would not always bet a two-high, one-low flop. For example, if a KK2 flop checked to me with that hand, I would not bet.

[/ QUOTE ]Yeah I can tell that what I'm saying can be misgrasped. Clearly the hand is a fold on the flop. But if it was a legit high hand then my advice works fine as a SOP. I'll play QJT9ds, might even put in a raise with all those limpers. QJT9r is a muck. Not sure what I do with the other ones. Can you think of another 9 high hand that's not a muck? KK2 isn't really the kind of flop I'm talking about. The point is that 9 in a High only hand is an exception. Most of the 9 high hands aren't playable. As far as a pair plus low flop, I don't think you could be to wrong to bet it, provided sometimes you actually have the K.

Re: O/8 Playing for High/Bet the flop?
 

Cappalletti's idea of betting high hands when you get a high flop works better when the high flop does not contain an Ace. The Ace will hit all the low hands, giving them at least a pair and possibly two pair. This greatly reduces your chance of picking up the pot. The Ace also makes it not an all high flop but a one low card flop. So you will get called by people trying for a backdoor low.

I would check this flop. If the position of the Ace and King were switched (Ace in your hand with a K T 9 flop), I would be more inclined to bet.

Re: O/8 Playing for High/Bet the flop?
 

I have found that Capaletti's idea of being aggressive on high only flops certainly has some validity.But it seems to me that more moderarion is needed in the application than he shows in his book.This example,with the flop containing an A,a poor fit,bad position,& such a large field misses the mark by a mile,imo.