Table talk / collusion -- let it slide?
 

I was playing 3/6 at the Trump Indiana last Friday (wonderful loose game, by the way) when the following occurred (for full disclosure, this was my first foray into casino poker):

An older man was sitting directly to my left; his wife was just to his left (on the other side of the dealer). Both bought in for about $50, which seemed quite short.

We were playing a kill pot, and I had raised AJs from middle position and gotten 4 callers (including the wife but not the husband). The flop was Ace-high and rainbow, and I raised an early-position bet from a LAG and still got 3 callers. After my turn bet, I saw the wife lean behind the dealer and mouth to her husband: "Does he have it?" He nodded, and she folded.

This didn't bother me too much until I thought about it later (although I was a lot more careful about how I peeked at my cards just in case). I didn't bother saying anything at the time because both players seemed quite weak; however it later became apparent that the wife almost always called down with any piece of the board or any pocket pair, especially in big pots, so this may or may not have cost me 2 BB (calls for my turn bet and river bet).

Should I have done anything here? Should I have been more willing to let it go to keep them happy and at the table because they seemed beatable? At the very least they were discussing the hand; at the worst he'd seen my holecards. Because I'm a B&M newbie I don't know how to handle this.

Any thoughts?

Re: Table talk / collusion -- let it slide?
 

First off you make DAMN SURE that no one sees your hole cards.

Like real estate's first three rules, the first three rules of casino poker are...

protect your hand!
protect your hand!
protect your hand!

Second, it's ONE PLAYER TO A HAND. If this is a common occurrence between an obvious couple then you should say something to the dealer, who should then immediately put a stop to it.

al

Re: Table talk / collusion -- let it slide?
 

I wouldn't let that slide. I would say "hey one player to a hand". If it continues call the floor.

Re: Table talk / collusion -- let it slide?
 

no way I let this slide.

Re: Table talk / collusion -- let it slide?
 

I would let it slide. If they are total Muppets, I would let it slide and not give it a second thought. YMMV.



Best of Luck

Howard

Re: Table talk / collusion -- let it slide?
 

If they're donating to your stack, then I'd let it slide...don't want to make them mad or make them leave. It may have cost you 2BB on that one hand, but calling them out and risking making them leave is probably worse. This happens at my casino when some people talk in Spanish but it's obvious they're drunk or bad players....I let it slide so they'll stay. Protect your hand.

ScottieK

Re: Table talk / collusion -- let it slide?
 

lean over and quietly say to him, "please don't look at my hand again. I just got out of prison and I really don't want to go back." [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Table talk / collusion -- let it slide?
 

Thanks for your thoughts.

For the rest of the session I protected my cards so darn well that I could barely see them.

They were indeed Muppets, although the wife was out for my blood because I raised her blind a couple times. A few hands later she practically threw her rockets at me after smooth-calling a raise from the small blind with four limpers and check-calling all the way against my TPMK. He seemed like a much better player, but was a bit weak-tight.

I'll be back there, and since they seemed like regulars I'll keep my eyes and ears open and say something if it happens again.

Re: Table talk / collusion -- let it slide?
 

[ QUOTE ]
lean over and quietly say to him, "please don't look at my hand again. I just got out of prison and I really don't want to go back." [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

That's good -- but I think I would have given the poor guy a heart attack! I definitely came across as the intense younger guy (younger for the table, that is), but that was mostly because I was mildly terrified for the first hour or two of my first casino game. I think I accidentally intimidated him into a seat change as it is.

Re: Table talk / collusion -- let it slide?
 

Hi Ox,

[ QUOTE ]
After my turn bet, I saw the wife lean behind the dealer and mouth to her husband: "Does he have it?" He nodded, and she folded.

[/ QUOTE ] Is it possible that she merely consulted with him for an opinion if you had an ace, or are you positive that he saw your holecards?

Re: Table talk / collusion -- let it slide?
 

I have had this happen a couple of times and generally a firm but not angry "One player per hand sir/maam" is enough. It generally gets answered with "sorry, we are new...", type lines.

Re: Table talk / collusion -- let it slide?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Is it possible that she merely consulted with him for an opinion if you had an ace, or are you positive that he saw your holecards?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, it's very possible that she was just asking his opinion. I wasn't being super-amazing-card-protector-guy before this hand, but I was still being careful enough that I thought it unlikely he'd seen.

Re: Table talk / collusion -- let it slide?
 

It just doesn't seem likely that the person that you described would even bother to take a peek at your cards, but then again, poker brings out the worst in people, including myself.

Yes, you are correct, and should tell the dealer to announce, "one player per hand". Doing so is a polite way of telling them to stop the collusion. On the other hand, if they were both terrible players, I would definitely let it slide, since both of them together would probably not give such a great advantage anyway. And doing so may also keep this game good and keep them happy.

Re: Table talk / collusion -- let it slide?
 

I've seen this at all tables in casinos and it annoys the [censored] out of me that the dealers don't pay any attention to it. I had it happen at 10/20 at borg where two kids were sitting at the end next to each other and showing hands and consulting. Words were exchanged and it did stop for a bit but then began again. I got a table change but I was still very pissed off...
Not sure exactly what you can do as the floors action seems to be "I'll keep an eye out" which means...I'll do nothing

Re: Table talk / collusion -- let it slide?
 

i go with the general consensus of letting it slide, since they are weak players, let them have their fun while you take their money

That doesn\'t answer the real question
 

lets say they weren't fish...would you all be so willing to let is slide then?

Re: That doesn\'t answer the real question
 

I don't let it slide at all, cheating is cheating. I can understand not pushing an etiqute (I can't spell) problem on some fishes, but if they break a rule you gotta say something. If they leave because they have problem with being reminded of a rule of the game they are playing you probably don't want them in your game.

Think of it this way, if you were playing basketball and a really bad player on the other team kept double dribbling would you say something knowing that the bad player would elave and be replaced by someone better?

You don't have to embaress them just make a comment to the table or to the dealer to get him to announce the rule.

Re: Table talk / collusion -- let it slide?
 

It never ceases to amaze me the crap they let go on in casinos. Unfortunately, I've seen this often when I play. If they really suck, don't say a word about it since they're going to give all their money away anyhow; you just want to be the one to get it. If the man seems to know a little bit about the game, then you say something. Voicing a complaint could have the added affect of putting them both on tilt.

Re: Table talk / collusion -- let it slide?
 

I'd be mildly pissed but no way do I say something about this. Having two stubborn old people to your immediate left calling you down all the time is way worse than having a poor-playing old lady fold her likely 2 outer against you in a kill pot. If they keep doing it you might consider a smartass remark. If possible get a seat change so you're on their left.

NT

Re: Table talk / collusion -- let it slide?
 

[ QUOTE ]
lean over and quietly say to him, "please don't look at my hand again. I just got out of prison and I don't mind going back." [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Obligatory FYP.

Re: Table talk / collusion -- let it slide?
 

[ QUOTE ]
First off you make DAMN SURE that no one sees your hole cards.

Like real estate's first three rules, the first three rules of casino poker are...

protect your hand!
protect your hand!
protect your hand!

Second, it's ONE PLAYER TO A HAND. If this is a common occurrence between an obvious couple then you should say something to the dealer, who should then immediately put a stop to it.

al

[/ QUOTE ]

It should also be noted that you don't have to make a big deal out of it when mentioning it. Just do it politely and casually. You could even say it jokingly and with a smile. Don't stop the whole game just to point it out. No reason to be humiliating to the offender more than need be. But you also don't want to come across as a bitter nit and bark at them as I've seen done.

b

Re: Table talk / collusion -- let it slide?
 

although i say do nothing, it doesn't really matter, especially at this limit if you do say something and they end up leaving. as a person i dont really care if they're losing, but it's well justified and probably the more proper thing to do would be to inform the dealer

Re: Table talk / collusion -- let it slide?
 

The poker/basketball anology is a poor one. I doubt anyone here who plays sports likes playing in uncompetative games. I wouldnt want to play with somebody so bad he has to dribble with two hands. However in poker I love playing with people who don't know how many cards are in a deck.

Re: Table talk / collusion -- let it slide?
 

Politely inform the person. Today you are getting more and more new people playing. Was at a 3/6 last week guy sat down obviosly new to game bought in for $150 and first hand he shows it to his buddy behind him. Someone politely told him it was not allowed. You have to help the newbies. Most are fish

Re: Table talk / collusion -- let it slide?
 

Thanks to everyone who offered their thoughts.

The main reason I didn't say anything, honestly, was that I was just a little overwhelmed at my first casino game -- having to remember to protect my cards, follow the action, watch people at the table (all the things that don't take nearly as much effort online). Although I did overhear it at the time (you'd be amazed at the other stuff I overheard people whisper to each other, mostly after hands), it didn't register at the time.

I'll be back at the Trump soon, and if it happens again I will most likely comment in a light, good-natured way. Gotta keep the table in high spirits, after all.

Re: Table talk / collusion -- let it slide?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I was playing 3/6 at the Trump Indiana last Friday (wonderful loose game, by the way) when the following occurred (for full disclosure, this was my first foray into casino poker):

An older man was sitting directly to my left; his wife was just to his left (on the other side of the dealer). Both bought in for about $50, which seemed quite short.

We were playing a kill pot, and I had raised AJs from middle position and gotten 4 callers (including the wife but not the husband). The flop was Ace-high and rainbow, and I raised an early-position bet from a LAG and still got 3 callers. After my turn bet, I saw the wife lean behind the dealer and mouth to her husband: "Does he have it?" He nodded, and she folded.

This didn't bother me too much until I thought about it later (although I was a lot more careful about how I peeked at my cards just in case). I didn't bother saying anything at the time because both players seemed quite weak; however it later became apparent that the wife almost always called down with any piece of the board or any pocket pair, especially in big pots, so this may or may not have cost me 2 BB (calls for my turn bet and river bet).

Should I have done anything here? Should I have been more willing to let it go to keep them happy and at the table because they seemed beatable? At the very least they were discussing the hand; at the worst he'd seen my holecards. Because I'm a B&M newbie I don't know how to handle this.

Any thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

Without having read the many replies here, this is my feedback:

When this happens, BE FRIENDLY AND POLITE but point out to the offending players that they are in violation of an important rule. Handling situations like this in such a manner will usually defuse the problem without taking away from the friendly atmosphere of the game.

If the problem persists (or, if the person responds "[censored] you, we're friends and I'll do what I want, so go [censored] yourself," as once happened to me), then notify the dealer. If the dealer does not handle the situation effectively, then call the floorperson over to put a stop to it.

Re: Table talk / collusion -- let it slide?
 

I agree. Usually a half-joking "one player to a hand guys" should be plenty, just make sure the dealer hears it. You're not looking to drive away the fish by being a jerk.

Actually, that could lead to a possible new poker definition...

Nits - JERKS who drive away the fish and ruin the game by being super picky about stupid chit, thus making general nuisances of themselves.

al

Re: Table talk / collusion -- let it slide?
 

You're playing 3-6. Most folks are there to have fun. You should be too, since you're going to make very little money in the long run at these stakes and with the rake, even if you're the best player at the table.

Many of the other players will be casual about etiquette. Make sure they can't see your cards, play well, don't tolerate deliberate cheating or angle shooting but about this kind of stuff...relax. And remember, anyone who is a long-time regular in this game isn't a very good poker player.

The higher you play, the more stuff like cheating and angleshooting that's calculated and can really hurt you is likely. So it's way more appropriate to be nitty in a 10-20 game than in a 3-6. The kind of thinking in this thread is more appropriate to that game and up.