Two Plus Two Older Archives

Two Plus Two Older Archives (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/index.php)
-   Medium-Stakes Pot-, No-Limit Hold'em (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/forumdisplay.php?f=54)
-   -   Game almost repaired: What I did and what's left (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=391847)

KINGOFINLAND 12-05-2005 01:55 PM

Game almost repaired: What I did and what\'s left
 
Little while ago I posted my pokertracker stats, even though the winrate was good, maybe because of short term variance, I didn't feel good about my game.
I got good advices, and have been working with my game alot after that.
I'm finally feeling good about my game, and it most shows in the way I make good moves and folds.

Here are the adjustments I have made:
Maybe someone else can as well get ideas of how to improve their game!


1) Playing only NL holdem. In past I have played pretty much every game. PL omaha(6 and 10 max), PL&FL Omaha hi/lo, short- and long handed fixed limit holdem,
NL holdem tournaments, all kind of SNG tourneys and so on.
I agree you can get ideas from other games, and it may help your main game, but too much is too much.
So I quit playing all other games then NL holdem, and played only the 6 max tables.

2) Reading only about NL holdem
This includes both books and this forum, I read only MHNL and SSNL forums of the strategy forums..
I should try to reply more to other people hands, but often it seems like either everything has been said or I'm unsure about how good my idea would be.

3) Railbirding only NL games
I'm a big fan of railbirding the big NL games: 50/100 and up at prima. And I feel like every now and then you can get ideas from there, even though it's mostly for fun.


Those were the general adjustments.
Now few specific strategic adjustments:

4) Tightening up from EP
I had bad habit of playing same hands from almost every hand. Now I have left some out from couple first positions, this includes hands that easily put you on a uncomfortable situation postflopSuited connectors, like 54s or 86s.
Smallest pairs, 22, 33, 44, 55. A-X where X is under T. I'm still unsure of I should start folding AT as well in normal games.

5) Not calling so many raises preflop
Other bad habit, if I saw a hand I would play in limped pot I would get married to it and play it as well facing a raise. That's why I never watch my cards before my turn in live games [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
I used to say myself, you have the implied odds just call, in reality I very rarely have the implied odds in headsup pots with hand like 75s.
Other thing is if I open raises utg for 4BB with AJo or so someone raised from next position to 16BB I would call, because for gods sake I can't fold preflop after my own raise!
Now this might not have been so big mistake preflop, but when you are out of position and not playing perfectly postflop you easilly have negative implied odds( I hope that's the correct term)

6) Reraising more preflop I was reraising basically only AA,KK,QQ, AK and sometimes JJ and AQ. Now for good opponent this is extremely easy to read, so I began mixing it up a bit.

7) Isolating
Something I knew should be done, and was doing it a bit, but I took to another level now.
If a bad player limps, or openraises for min.(this seem to happen a lot) I would go ahead and raise big, to get headsup with the fish.

8) Folding more from the blinds
This is as well a negative implied odds more then anything else, it might not be a so big mistake to call a raise with K9 or Q8 but it adds up easilly postflop. After all it seems like no-on is really trying to steal your blinds.. I just had some stupid macho idea and felt like everybody was making a move on me [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]
I had it all figured out wrong way, I thought they were trying to steal my blinds, but actually they were trying to get me in so I would make a huge mistake postflop. Which wasn't all that rare.

Those were all pretty much preflop adjustments.
Next couple postflop things.


9) Understanding your tendencies
I guess everybody have tendency to play too obvious game from time to time.
Mine was this: Raise preflop someone calls, flop comes bet if called give up on turn with bad hands, keep betting the good ones, call down with decent ones.
Especially the last one is horrible, it comes from playing much SH fixed limit holdem where it's OK to call down with pretty much everything after flop against one opponent.
Other was I would never reraise without extremely good hand/huge draw.
There are some more, but I think those are two most obvious.

10) way behind or way ahead This is as well something I knew but didn't really care about, before reading some good posts from MHNLH. Now notice I said I would continue betting only the good ones, my criteria of a good hand was little below the normal. I.e top pair decent kicker on turn was a good one for me [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Think I just played a good hand to explain this a bit:
I raise from utg to 4BB(100 stacks) with AJ BB calls. Flop came 885 he checked and I bet 7BB.
Turn comes J it goes check-check, here I did bit different.. in past I would have bet and maybe called raise. Checking behind cuts down the chance of making a big mistake.

11) Bluffing a bit more
This is bit same with understand your tendencies. As I said I almost never bluffed after flop and never tried to pull a big move. So I decided to start making some moves. After all what's better then bluffing Johnny Chan out of big pot. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
So I began doing some stuff and make them less obvious, pushing the turn as a bluff, overbetting as a bluff, raising turn as a semibluff etc etc.
But keep in mind you shouldn't bluff very much in small stakes games.

And lastly couple advices, that have nothing to do with poker, but I think still improved my game.


12) Eating and drinking healthier
I don't mean you start drinking only beet juice, and eat beans. But what I did was I stopped being so damn lazy and just ordering pizza when playing, instead I think couple mins and do some good food.
Aswell I used to drink only coca cola while playing, now I replaced it with water. That seems to have made a huge difference, I feel better and brains seems to work faster.

And one last thing now if the poker gets boring or I feel like i'm not playing A game or tilt is close I take 30mins off and go run to park.


And the issues I still have, blind battles( my style in blind battles is now very weak tight), missing value with decent hands - this is connected to "way behind or way ahead" I'm still looking for the correct balance and still using too good game selection [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] I pass alot decent games still.
Playing bit weak tight postflop from time to time, some opponents are scary..

My English is far from perfect, and even tho I tried to fix the obvious spelling errors some sentences might still be stupid, hopefully it's readable anyway.

beset7 12-05-2005 02:07 PM

Re: Game almost repaired: What I did and what\'s left
 
Nice post thanks. I've gone through a lot of the same things lately.

Except for the bluffing part is completely reversed. My tendency is to bluff too much and pulling that back a few notches has been great for my WR.

Morrek 12-05-2005 02:19 PM

Re: Game almost repaired: What I did and what\'s left
 
Nice post, #12 is more important than you'd think, atleast for me.

BTW, do you play 6max or 10max? I was especially thinking about what you said about blind battles and stop playing some hands EP, and I realize both of these are quite different in 6max versus 10max

KINGOFINLAND 12-05-2005 02:21 PM

Re: Game almost repaired: What I did and what\'s left
 
Right now i'm playing 90% of the time 6max and 10max only when there is absolute no 6max games running at my stakes.

Leptyne 12-05-2005 03:20 PM

Re: Game almost repaired: What I did and what\'s left
 
An excellent post and my compliments on your english. I think the term you were looking for is "reverse implied odds". NL is "big bet" poker and you are looking for ways to get your opponents stack in one hand. Reverse implied odds is when you have AK and the flop comes K82r. It is a lot easier for you to hit your hand than it is for your opponent to hit a pp, but if he puts his stack in then the chances are good that your TPTK is beat. If you are deep stacked the value of your hand will go down if you hit the flop. If you're short stacked this would not be a problem and your hand will play much like Limit.

The one thing that I fail to pay enough attention to in my game is the constant statement found in High Stakes posts regarding how difficult it is to play a hand OOP.

A final bit of advice that I have found useful is to study how strong players use position to their advantage.

KINGOFINLAND 12-05-2005 04:54 PM

Re: Game almost repaired: What I did and what\'s left
 
Thanks.

Now that you mention the position play I agree. What gives me the most hard time is how to play turn headsup when you are first to act and have lead the flop. It's especially hard when you have a decent hand, i.e top pair good kicker and are against good player.

12-05-2005 05:56 PM

Re: Game almost repaired: What I did and what\'s left
 
Great post!!

Have been thinking of some of theese things myself lately but this have totally slipped my mind.

[ QUOTE ]

9) Understanding your tendencies
I guess everybody have tendency to play too obvious game from time to time.
Mine was this: Raise preflop someone calls, flop comes bet if called give up on turn with bad hands, keep betting the good ones, call down with decent ones.


[/ QUOTE ]

This description fit me so much its scary but i dont know how to change this. I feel i play way to much ABC right now.

Murderous 12-05-2005 06:13 PM

Re: Game almost repaired: What I did and what\'s left
 
[ QUOTE ]
6) Reraising more preflop I was reraising basically only AA,KK,QQ, AK and sometimes JJ and AQ. Now for good opponent this is extremely easy to read, so I began mixing it up a bit.


[/ QUOTE ]

Players obviously have their own comfort levels and playing styles but I think this is one of the more valuable insights/adjustments that you mention.

Against many types of players it’s good to reraise with "air" every now and then.

Good post.

--M

jjb108 12-05-2005 08:29 PM

Re: Game almost repaired: What I did and what\'s left
 
[ QUOTE ]
Nice post thanks. I've gone through a lot of the same things lately.

Except for the bluffing part is completely reversed. My tendency is to bluff too much and pulling that back a few notches has been great for my WR.

[/ QUOTE ]

12-05-2005 09:48 PM

Re: Game almost repaired: What I did and what\'s left
 
[ QUOTE ]
5) Not calling so many raises preflop
Other bad habit, if I saw a hand I would play in limped pot I would get married to it and play it as well facing a raise. That's why I never watch my cards before my turn in live games
I used to say myself, you have the implied odds just call, in reality I very rarely have the implied odds in headsup pots with hand like 75s.
Other thing is if I open raises utg for 4BB with AJo or so someone raised from next position to 16BB I would call, because for gods sake I can't fold preflop after my own raise!
Now this might not have been so big mistake preflop, but when you are out of position and not playing perfectly postflop you easilly have negative implied odds( I hope that's the correct term)

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't be afraid to call a raise in position. I love calling raises in position with a variety of hands, particularly against weak players. I don't mean hands like AJ, I mean hands like 67s or AK. Actually playing poker is fun.

aggie 12-05-2005 09:58 PM

Re: Game almost repaired: What I did and what\'s left
 
I don't have much to say, but great post!!!

tdomeski 12-05-2005 10:57 PM

Re: Game almost repaired: What I did and what\'s left
 
good stuff.

points 7,8, and 10 are probably the most important.

12-05-2005 10:59 PM

Re: Game almost repaired: What I did and what\'s left
 
During a downswing I just had, I thought I might have been raising too many marginal hands from MP (I play 6 max) and thought that I should tighten up my raising standards from the first half of the table. To make this easy, I sorted my hands by VPIP, to group all the ones I regularly play and checked if there were any hands I played regularly that I was losing with. I was a consistent loser with KJ, KT, T8, QT, QJ, these were all hands I regularly played and opened with. I was a net loser with them. So I stopped opening them and trying to steal blinds with them from too early positions. I wasn't coldcalling with them, that wasn't the problem.

Try it out, sort your hands by VPIP and see which ones are in your regular playing repertoire and are losing you money. For the 50K hands that I was playing/running fine and goot, these slipped under the radar but were just weighting my WR down.

crosse91 12-05-2005 11:02 PM

Re: Game almost repaired: What I did and what\'s left
 
amazingly, i am a large loser with AKs. I suck at top pair apparently.

tdomeski 12-05-2005 11:07 PM

Re: Game almost repaired: What I did and what\'s left
 
[ QUOTE ]
i am a large loser with AKs. I suck at top pair apparently.

[/ QUOTE ]

flop a flush

crosse91 12-05-2005 11:08 PM

Re: Game almost repaired: What I did and what\'s left
 
you're getting all the one liners in tonite aren't you?

12-05-2005 11:11 PM

Re: Game almost repaired: What I did and what\'s left
 
[ QUOTE ]
amazingly, i am a large loser with AKs. I suck at top pair apparently.

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe you overplay your semibluffs with it?

KINGOFINLAND 12-06-2005 05:18 AM

Re: Game almost repaired: What I did and what\'s left
 
About way behind or way ahead.
Few have asked about this via PM, it might be better I answer here so someone can correct and add if I miss something.

You are playing 5/10nl 6max with 100BB stacks.
And get A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] UTG and I make your normal $40 openraise. Only the BB calls who happens to be a good solid player. Flop comes K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
The player check and you bet $80, and opponent calls this is all standard so far.
Now turn is T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] BB checks again. Now the BB:s range here is usually, KK,QQ,JJ AK,AQ,KQ,KJ,KT,QJ,QT maybe some lower pocket pairs i.e TT & 99 & 44

So you might well have the best hand and if you have the best hand it's very likely dominating the opponents hand, but if you bet $160 the opponent check-raises you put yourself on a unpleasent situation, while you could have just took a free card and play river with more information.
Other thing is on a board like this it's hard to get good action from a hand you beat.

JaBlue 12-06-2005 06:25 AM

Re: Game almost repaired: What I did and what\'s left
 
[ QUOTE ]
About way behind or way ahead.
Few have asked about this via PM, it might be better I answer here so someone can correct and add if I miss something.

You are playing 5/10nl 6max with 100BB stacks.
And get A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] UTG and I make your normal $40 openraise. Only the BB calls who happens to be a good solid player. Flop comes K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
The player check and you bet $80, and opponent calls this is all standard so far.
Now turn is T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] BB checks again. Now the BB:s range here is usually, KK,QQ,JJ AK,AQ,KQ,KJ,KT,QJ,QT maybe some lower pocket pairs i.e TT & 99 & 44


[/ QUOTE ]

I do not agree. First of all, I eliminate KK/QQ from the handrange because they would reraise preflop. AK usually does too, but often doesn't so that can stay in.

A much more likely hand range, in my opinion once you get to the turn is AK, AQ, KQ, JT, 44, and KJ with maybe a slight chance of QQ.

I would put KQ, J10 as the most likely hands followed by 44. The game I play in is probably a lot nittier than the game you play in if your hand range is actually accurate.

Also I want to mention that the presence and likeliness of J10 in the handrange means that you are not WA/WB because sometimes he will have J10 which means on the turn he has 13 outs, or ~20%.

KINGOFINLAND 12-06-2005 06:35 AM

Re: Game almost repaired: What I did and what\'s left
 
You play at pokerstars, right? I don't play there because of the fact it's nittiest of all the sites I have ever tried.
I play lot at ladbrokes, and I believ the hand range I gave is very close to correct against most opponents there. I should have included that.

Hattifnatt 12-06-2005 07:07 AM

Re: Game almost repaired: What I did and what\'s left
 
I've gone through much of the same like this. But still have problem with not folding SC type of hands in EP if the conditions sais so (but I have been better at not almost Always raise with them). I have also problem with some other parts of these you wrote.

I can also add one thing that ive done that has made my hourly winrate a little smaller but have improved my game A LOT. It is always playing only ONE table (Im only playing 6-max) and analyze every hand that I didnt see directly what happened directly in the Hand History.

Drinking water instead of Coke is a very good tip for every one. I also use to drink like two glaesses of water directly after a big loss. But before start playing I like to have one or two beers under the belt. Im seldom drink alcohol during the game (except live games). Not beeing hungry during the play is also of Big big importance.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:40 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.