Play from the blinds: J8s
 

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

CO (t920)
Button (t1525) <font color="white"> Qs 2h </font>
SB (t410)
Hero (t520)
UTG (t700)
UTG+1 (t1000)
MP1 (t1025)
MP2 (t1115)
MP3 (t785)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, MP3 calls t30, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls t30, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t120) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets t30</font>, SB calls t30, Hero calls t30, MP3 folds.

Turn: (t210) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets t30</font>, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t175</font>, Button calls t145.

River: (t560) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks ???

Re: Play from the blinds: J8s
 

I lead the flop 100% of the time. Then the rest of the hand is easy.

Re: Play from the blinds: J8s
 

[ QUOTE ]
I lead the flop 100% of the time. Then the rest of the hand is easy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you lead if the flop was not two tone?

Re: Play from the blinds: J8s
 

I think I probably value bet this. His small bets combined with the call of your re-raise makes me think flush draw which means that A likely hit his hand. I think you'll get call here often enough from a weaker hand to make it worth a bet.

Re: Play from the blinds: J8s
 

All-in and expect a call from an A.

Re: Play from the blinds: J8s
 

Lead the flop.

The way you played it, just push the river.

A lot of these 'play from the blinds' hands make NO sense at all. I mean, if there's anything special about the villain that caused you to do something different, then post those specific reads. If not, your default lines are pretty bad.

Re: Play from the blinds: J8s
 

how bad is folding PF? still learning...

in your case though, i'll usually bet 150ish on the river.

jc

Re: Play from the blinds: J8s
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I lead the flop 100% of the time. Then the rest of the hand is easy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you lead if the flop was not two tone?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes

Bet flop!!! No one will believe you have a jack and you can pwn them.

Re: Play from the blinds: J8s
 

[ QUOTE ]
how bad is folding PF? still learning...

[/ QUOTE ]He's in the BB this time and no one has raised, so it didn't cost him anything to see the flop.

Re: Play from the blinds: J8s
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I lead the flop 100% of the time. Then the rest of the hand is easy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you lead if the flop was not two tone?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes

Bet flop!!! No one will believe you have a jack and you can pwn them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Play from the blinds: J8s
 

[ QUOTE ]
Bet flop!!! No one will believe you have a jack and you can pwn them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Play from the blinds: J8s
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bet flop!!! No one will believe you have a jack and you can pwn them.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

They still need a hand to call you. I think this is one of those spots where not leading trips is just fine.

Re: Play from the blinds: J8s
 

They will call with ace high or any pocket pair. If nobody has any of those hands you are not getting any action anyway.

Re: Play from the blinds: J8s
 

silly me, let's say he was in the SB, like i mistakenly assumed, how bad is folding? i always fold with limpers thinking that i could be dominated.

thanks,
jc

Re: Play from the blinds: J8s
 

In general, people tend to check trips in the BB more often then they should. I like betting this flop because of the flush draw and the high number of opponents. The manner you played it, you've pretty clearly announced your hand on the turn if anyone is listening.

The river could be an interesting spot. I see 3 possible hands that call the turn. A J always calls. Flush draws often call. A donkey with an A will also call at times, even thogh you pretty much smacked him in the face and said you had a J. You aren't getting any more value out of a lone flush draw. An A that called the turn will call a lot of bets on the river. Obviously a J is calling or raising, and if he has a J there's a slight chance you're chopping. If you were deeper, I would give some thought to checking, but as it stands your short stack makes the river straightforward. Shove.

Re: Play from the blinds: J8s
 

Wow I would almost never lead this flop, I'd probably check-call it, check raise the turn and push the river. Interesting stuff.

Re: Play from the blinds: J8s
 

[ QUOTE ]
silly me, let's say he was in the SB, like i mistakenly assumed, how bad is folding? i always fold with limpers thinking that i could be dominated.

thanks,
jc

[/ QUOTE ]

You're not planning to get the chips in on a J-high or 8-high board with J8s. You're planning to make a straight or a flush or two pair and stack AJ type of hands.

Re: Play from the blinds: J8s
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bet flop!!! No one will believe you have a jack and you can pwn them.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

They still need a hand to call you. I think this is one of those spots where not leading trips is just fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

on a rainbow board, not betting is MAYBE ok, but checking on this board allows a flush draw to see the turn for free.

that is BAD.

Re: Play from the blinds: J8s
 

[ QUOTE ]
how bad is folding PF? still learning...

jc

[/ QUOTE ]

Good idea to fold PF. Even though you see a flop for free and have infinity implied odds, I still like the fold. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: Play from the blinds: J8s
 

[ QUOTE ]
You're not planning to get the chips in on a J-high or 8-high board with J8s. You're planning to make a straight or a flush or two pair and stack AJ type of hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

i see your point. but surely, you're not suggesting check/folding all the time when it's a J or 8 high flop. don't we have to find out if we might have the best hand by putting some chips into the pot on SOME occasions (ex: calling a small late position bet ...)?

Re: Play from the blinds: J8s
 

[ QUOTE ]


on a rainbow board, not betting is MAYBE ok, but checking on this board allows a flush draw to see the turn for free.

that is BAD.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are you worried about the flush?

Re: what if....
 

instead of J8s, is it correct to fold if:

-he had J8o?
-the BB is 50, or 100, or 150, or ...

thanks,
jc

Re: what if....
 

jc,
he is in the Big Blind which means it is FREE for him to see a flop with ANY 2 cards. Doesn't costs any money.

Re: Play from the blinds: J8s
 

If there's only a couple of opponents, and you're the first one in, you could lead at the pot, something like 50%-75% (I like the lower end of this range) and see what happens. You'd like to take it down right there. You want to be very cautious; maybe take one shot, and then let it go if you get action. If you're lucky it might get checked down (assuming you're just called on the flop) or you could face a small enough bet on the river (or microbets on the turn and river; than can happen) that you can call, but you don't want to commit many chips at all to this hand.

Re: Play from the blinds: J8s
 

Despite being named Microbet, there's no way I start a hand with 520 chips, flop trips, and don't figure out how to get all my chips in the middle.

Re: Play from the blinds: J8s
 

He was asking about a Jack high or 8 high flop, not trips. Take a look at the post to which I was responding to.

Certainly your comment is true for trips.

Re: Play from the blinds: J8s
 

My apologies. At work I have to ssh and use Lynx (a non-graphical browser) and it is more difficult to see who responded to whom. I know that's not a great excuse, but that's all I got.

Re: Play from the blinds: J8s
 

No problem. It would indeed be strange advice for playing trips given the stack sizes.

Re: Play from the blinds: J8s
 

Yeah...at some point you had better get the chips in, and with 5 people there that point is the flop.

PS: Come on, he doesn't always have a jack, bet the river.

Re: Play from the blinds: J8s
 

the flop check makes no sense if you weren't trying to check raise. the river check makes no sence after the turn check raise.

lead the flop, 3/4 pot or so. Lead the turn with a 2/3 or so pot bet, hoping to look weak and get raised by an ace, if so push. if someone has stayed to the river, bet what you think they will call. If someone has a full house or the case J better kicker or K10 and hit the inside straight, say "this [censored]'s rigged, stupid game" and open the next one.

Re: general question on completing from SB
 

in my previous post, i mistakenly assumed that he was the SB and came up with a question based on that. i guess my question has more to do with which hands in general to complete with from the SB and if the current level should factor in. (ex: BB=30 vs. BB=150)

Re: Play from the blinds: J8s
 

Buy in?????

FWIW I can't check this flop ever. With your line I bet the river prolly 2/3 pot or push.

Straight Flushes,

SAM