He\'s Picked up a real hand here, Ace Ace
 

Lost the hand history. I have pocket aces with blinds at 100/200, Partypoker $22 MTT. 415 people. No reads on the villain who calls my raise to 575.

He's right behind me, i'm 3rd to act.

Flop comes: Kd 8d 7 spades

Pot is 1450.

I bet 850. Villain who has the same amount of chips as me (4100) pushes.

How would you play the flop as far as betting. What about raising preflop. Instacall here, right?

Re: He\'s Picked up a real hand here, Ace Ace
 

Betting looks about right. Instcall that push. You see flush draws, K's and other trash here enough to have +EV here.

Re: He\'s Picked up a real hand here, Ace Ace
 

575 too small from that position. I hate wasting aces with a ton of donkastic guys around.

Re: He\'s Picked up a real hand here, Ace Ace
 

My roomate who was watching said I should check this flop here...I highly disagree, I'll explain his reasoning in a second.

Re: He\'s Picked up a real hand here, Ace Ace
 

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My roomate who was watching said I should check this flop here...I highly disagree, I'll explain his reasoning in a second.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ummm...i cant see any good rationale to check this flop...yeah, i like the bet on the flop...and i'm calling this every time pretty much...oh btw...i'm sure your aces dont include the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]?...you didnt mention...but im guessing not

Re: He\'s Picked up a real hand here, Ace Ace
 

I had two black aces.

Re: He\'s Picked up a real hand here, Ace Ace
 

I guess since we agree that I should have bet the flop the amount I did and call his push I'll explain my roomate's rationale for checking the flop, when he saw the villain's A 9 diamonds. The board ended up spitting out a 10 spades and a 6 clubs to give him a straight.

My roomate said that if I check to villain on the flop he'd check his flush draw. Then if I bet the turn he'd call with his gutshot straight draw and his 4 to the flush. Then when the board would have 6 7 8 10 and I would either check/bet villain would push and I'd still have around 2000-2500 chips to play with instead of being out of the tournament in 406th place.

Agree with him?

Re: He\'s Picked up a real hand here, Ace Ace
 

The only reasoning to check the flop is to enduce betting, not avoid it.

Re: He\'s Picked up a real hand here, Ace Ace
 

bitchslap your roomate for me.

Re: He\'s Picked up a real hand here, Ace Ace
 

So you automatically put him on a flush draw even though you have absolutely no information that gives you that ability? And even if you did, you want to give him FREE CARDS to his draw? You have the best hand. You KNOW you have the best hand. He's going to call with his flush draw. CHARGE HIM.

Re: He\'s Picked up a real hand here, Ace Ace
 

Yeah, I guess my roomate's real reasoning is that if he checks his draw on the flop (which my roomate really thinks he will since he doesn't want to get charged) I can bet the pot on the turn and he'll probably fold knowing his percentages are way down. But he won't I highly highly doubt if he thinks any diamonds, 10, or possibly ace could be good.

Re: He\'s Picked up a real hand here, Ace Ace
 

Again, dude. You want to get all your money in the pot. Not getting out the cheapest. If you think checking the flop and betting the turn would get him to FOLD, that's not a good play.

Re: He\'s Picked up a real hand here, Ace Ace
 

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bitchslap your roomate for me.

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and again for me.

Re: He\'s Picked up a real hand here, Ace Ace
 

you can't make rationally think of the advange of checking in that way... the only advantage of checking the flop is to induce a bet and then CR yourself all in.

I like that play because its not as volatile since you're not allowing flush draws to move in. If he has a K, the money will most likely go in anyway but you may not want a flush draw to raise all in and then draw at you.

against aggressive oppenants, I like checking the flop and then CR opp who will bet flush draws.

Re: He\'s Picked up a real hand here, Ace Ace
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
bitchslap your roomate for me.

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and again for me.

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Throw one in for me.

His reasoning is beyond horrible.


FGators, stop posting hands where you lose.

Re: He\'s Picked up a real hand here, Ace Ace
 

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[ QUOTE ]
bitchslap your roomate for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

and again for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Throw one in for me.

His reasoning is beyond horrible.


[/ QUOTE ]

Throw another one for me, only not a slap... have you ever heard of a cleveland steamer? Get him good. Checking aces there, poor little fish.

Re: He\'s Picked up a real hand here, Ace Ace
 

like INSTAcall. I mean, I break my keyboard and give myself a hernia clicking call. the way my finger moves to the button to click call, it's as if I'm breaking the laws of motion. I'd create a black hole in my speed to click the call button. instaINSTAINSTAcall

Re: He\'s Picked up a real hand here, Ace Ace
 

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instaINSTAINSTAcall

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I 2nd that.


instaINSTAINSTAcall instaINSTAINSTAcall instaINSTAINSTAcall instaINSTAINSTAcall instaINSTAINSTAcall instaINSTAINSTAcall instaINSTAINSTAcall instaINSTAINSTAcall instaINSTAINSTAcall instaINSTAINSTAcall instaINSTAINSTAcall instaINSTAINSTAcall instaINSTAINSTAcall instaINSTAINSTAcall instaINSTAINSTAcall instaINSTAINSTAcall instaINSTAINSTAcall

Re: He\'s Picked up a real hand here, Ace Ace
 

What happened to your VVP Wannabe title? :\

And instacall.

Re: He\'s Picked up a real hand here, Ace Ace
 

You know you're still ahead on the flop. When you're ahead your main concern should be to get as much money in the middle as possible. Always. Because you stand to win the money in the pot and every single chip you can manage to get into the pot is +EV.
And it worked great here. Your bet induced a semi-bluff all-in from a guy that's only 40% to win the hand.

I'm very happy whenever I manage that. Even when he gets lucky and hits his draw.

Thinking about how you can get away from the hand if he somehow manages to suck out is way too weak, IMO. Because when you do that, you're also giving your opponent a chance to get away if *he* loses. And he's more likely to lose than you are.

So my advise is to try to play against your roommate as much as you can [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: He\'s Picked up a real hand here, Ace Ace
 

[ QUOTE ]
I guess since we agree that I should have bet the flop the amount I did and call his push I'll explain my roomate's rationale for checking the flop, when he saw the villain's A 9 diamonds. The board ended up spitting out a 10 spades and a 6 clubs to give him a straight.

My roomate said that if I check to villain on the flop he'd check his flush draw. Then if I bet the turn he'd call with his gutshot straight draw and his 4 to the flush. Then when the board would have 6 7 8 10 and I would either check/bet villain would push and I'd still have around 2000-2500 chips to play with instead of being out of the tournament in 406th place.

Agree with him?

[/ QUOTE ]

Work on your omniscience and prescience.

You played this hand great.

Re: He\'s Picked up a real hand here, Ace Ace
 

[ QUOTE ]
I guess since we agree that I should have bet the flop the amount I did and call his push I'll explain my roomate's rationale for checking the flop, when he saw the villain's A 9 diamonds. The board ended up spitting out a 10 spades and a 6 clubs to give him a straight.

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Your roommate is advocating results oriented thinking here. More often than not your opponent will not get runner runner for his straight. You did not want to give the diamond draw a free card. You're ahead all the way, even though he picked up a better redraw on the river than he had on the turn.

[ QUOTE ]
My roomate said that if I check to villain on the flop he'd check his flush draw. Then if I bet the turn he'd call with his gutshot straight draw and his 4 to the flush. Then when the board would have 6 7 8 10 and I would either check/bet villain would push and I'd still have around 2000-2500 chips to play with instead of being out of the tournament in 406th place.

Agree with him?

[/ QUOTE ]

No I don't agree with him. You can't give the flush draw a free card. Betting somewhere around 2/3 of the pot makes it so that calling your bet is a mistake. That's what it all comes down to. You induced the villain to make a mistake on the flop and he bit. After the flop call you then might want to make the draw pay even more, especially when you see that the scary board got a bit scarier and villain may have picked up some more outs. Price him OUT of this hand. If he calls again he's making another mistake. But consider that more often than not you will win this hand. You happened to be in one instance where the underdog hit one of his outs on the river, and he had quite a few of them, but more often than not you want to get all of your chips in the middle here and double up through the donkey.

Bad players do get rewarded by luck. All you can do is make the best play to induce your opponent to make as many mistakes in a hand as possible. If he happens to outdraw you and get lucky - that's poker for ya.

Re: He\'s Picked up a real hand here, Ace Ace
 

Where does your roomate play? :-)

You played this fine. Sucks when fish catch runner-runner-crap to crack aces, but it happens.

If he is willing to push all of his chips on a draw with no pair to an overcard board, well, then god love him.

BTW, if you had checked the flop and he checked behind, then he picks up the OESD, with the flushdraw, he was close to being ahead (math guys?). So, he woudl have been correct to call your all in. In otherwords, you would have helped him to make the right decision = breaking the FTOP = BAD. :-)

Well played, slap your roomate...

Re: He\'s Picked up a real hand here, Ace Ace
 

Addendum to my earlier post is that you want to instacall that push. With the FD villain only has 9 outs twice and his backdoor straight draw only adds slightly more equity to his hand. You're ahead here about 60/40 with two cards to come.

Re: He\'s Picked up a real hand here, Ace Ace
 

[ QUOTE ]
I guess since we agree that I should have bet the flop the amount I did and call his push I'll explain my roomate's rationale for checking the flop, when he saw the villain's A 9 diamonds. The board ended up spitting out a 10 spades and a 6 clubs to give him a straight.

My roomate said that if I check to villain on the flop he'd check his flush draw. Then if I bet the turn he'd call with his gutshot straight draw and his 4 to the flush. Then when the board would have 6 7 8 10 and I would either check/bet villain would push and I'd still have around 2000-2500 chips to play with instead of being out of the tournament in 406th place.

Agree with him?

[/ QUOTE ]

Your roommate is clearly an idiot. If you just folded preflop, you wouldn't have even wasted any chips on the hand.

Re: He\'s Picked up a real hand here, Ace Ace
 

[ QUOTE ]
bitchslap your roomate for me.

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