my least favorite situation in poker...400NL
 

What do I do on flop and turn? Villian is 14/5 after 50 hands. What is the best way to get around these situations?
If I would have raised 50 and same thing happened I suppose its a clear fold. Any responses are good. I really need to get a standard way to play this.


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG ($386)
Hero ($701)
MP1 ($386)
MP2 ($729.60)
MP3 ($303.85)
CO ($193.80)
Button ($443.50)
SB ($293.60)
BB ($480)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $2.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $15</font>, MP1 calls $15, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Button calls $15, SB (poster) calls $13, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: ($64) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $30</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to $60</font>, Button folds, SB folds, Hero probably shoulda folded but calls $30.

Turn: ($184) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets $180</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $364

Re: my least favorite situation in poker...400NL
 

pop flop back up to 150, what do you put him on?

as played you could easily be chopping or ahead of AQ/Asxs - weird line if he has boat

Re: my least favorite situation in poker...400NL
 

you are ahead here most of the time. bet more on the flop. bet again on turn. the only logical hand that you're behind is 99 and I doubt villain would bet so much on the turn w/ 99. as played, ill probably check-raise all-in on the turn.

Re: my least favorite situation in poker...400NL
 

Put the rest in the middle on the flop. Villain hasn't convinced me has a set or two pair.

Re: my least favorite situation in poker...400NL
 

Lead this turn

Re: my least favorite situation in poker...400NL
 

you guys must not play the 400s much

Re: my least favorite situation in poker...400NL
 

Your flop bet is weak as hell.

Re: my least favorite situation in poker...400NL
 

DEFINATLY bet more on flop. Him raising you here is completely different than if you had bet 50+ and he popped you. Here, you could easily be laying down the best hand, and your information isn't good enough to make a clear judgement.

Re: my least favorite situation in poker...400NL
 

Call the raise on the flop (or just fold).

If you called that bet out 1/2-2/3 pot on a blank turn and fold if raised.

Re: my least favorite situation in poker...400NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
Put the rest in the middle on the flop. Villain hasn't convinced me has a set or two pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

What would he need to do to convince you? Do you play in the 400 game regularly? This is a 9 handed game and the villain has pretty tight stats. I really doubt that he is raising AT-AQ for value here

Re: my least favorite situation in poker...400NL
 

Why are you betting 1/2 the pot on the flop?

as it's played it could go either way, but betting full on the flop makes this much easier.

Re: my least favorite situation in poker...400NL
 

I've found these games are the easiest if you go ahead and bet around the pot everytime you bet the flop. If he minraises you there you can make a decision. A 14/5 probably has you beat if you call the flop raise then turn bet and he still bets the river. The whole thing is different if you bet more, maybe just fold to the raise or take a stand some fraction of the time. As you played it he could have a huge range of hands. I would bluff/semi bluff raise a ton of stuff if you are playing this weak at 6max.

-SmileyEH

Re: my least favorite situation in poker...400NL
 

Villain is unconcerned about top pair, and about pair on board, therefore he has trips, which, with the pair now on board became a boat. That's how I read it.

Re: my least favorite situation in poker...400NL
 

You are inviting a checkraise with that bet.. If that was the intention, follow up.. Otherwise bet more on the flop

Re: my least favorite situation in poker...400NL
 

400; full ring; Who knows??? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Potting that turn = no full house IMO.

A9 fits the bill, as does AK or a new found heart draw.

I prolly donk it off to A9 and feel stupid.

Re: my least favorite situation in poker...400NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: ($64) A, 9, 3 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $30, MP1 raises to $60, Button folds, SB folds, Hero probably shoulda folded but calls $30.


[/ QUOTE ]

Hero makes weak continuation bet.
Villian minraises to see about the two people behind him.
Two people behind fold.
Turn.
Hero Check.
Villian bets pot with AJ.
Hero folds AK.

This looks to be the case.


A 14/5 calling a 4BB raise from EP in MP1 with A9? I'm afraid of one hand here. And that hand isn't going to bet so huge with a turned fullhouse.

Re: my least favorite situation in poker...400NL
 

You made a standard opening bet, then bet half pot, then checked. How is villain supposed to know you're near as strong as you are. As far as I'm concerned, with the way you played, I put the rest of my chips in. This it AT-AQ far too often for you to be afraid. Medium aces love min-raising this flop to such a weak bet. And once you check the turn he probably puts you on a flush draw or something, or he thinks his AJ/AQ is good and is going for value.

Re: my least favorite situation in poker...400NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
You made a standard opening bet, then bet half pot, then checked. How is villain supposed to know you're near as strong as you are. As far as I'm concerned, with the way you played, I put the rest of my chips in. This it AT-AQ far too often for you to be afraid. Medium aces love min-raising this flop to such a weak bet. And once you check the turn he probably puts you on a flush draw or something, or he thinks his AJ/AQ is good and is going for value.

[/ QUOTE ]

theres two things that make me think villian probably doesn't have AQ/AJ
1. He called a $15 bet from Utg pf...most rocks won't do this w/ AQ and definately not AJ and below.
2 He bet Pot on the turn. He seemed like a thinking player....why would he make such a huge bet that I would only call if I have him beat.

Re: my least favorite situation in poker...400NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You made a standard opening bet, then bet half pot, then checked. How is villain supposed to know you're near as strong as you are. As far as I'm concerned, with the way you played, I put the rest of my chips in. This it AT-AQ far too often for you to be afraid. Medium aces love min-raising this flop to such a weak bet. And once you check the turn he probably puts you on a flush draw or something, or he thinks his AJ/AQ is good and is going for value.

[/ QUOTE ]

theres two things that make me think villian probably doesn't have AQ/AJ
1. He called a $15 bet from Utg pf...most rocks won't do this w/ AQ and definately not AJ and below.
2 He bet Pot on the turn. He seemed like a thinking player....why would he make such a huge bet that I would only call if I have him beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

let me try to clarify something here:
He can't have AQ here since he wouldn't bet it like that
He can't have any ace lower than AQ because he wouldn't call with those
He can't have 9's full because he knows you need a big hand to call here (you said it yourself) and there's no way you have one on that board.

So his hand range is zero :| Your read has to be off in one of those points.

Re: my least favorite situation in poker...400NL
 

I think villain has JJ/QQ, and after Heros weak flopbet think he can get hero to fold his JJ-KK.

Re: my least favorite situation in poker...400NL
 

Everyone says bet more on the flop, I agree somewhat, it is a weakish bet, but...I think villian is likely to have a-q or aj-10 suited. This is a standard play from a lot of online players, they will mini-raise on the flop to find out where they are at. So because Hero led weak at the flop it looked like a continuation bet, so it lead Villian to believe he was weak. Which let villian take control of the hand with a weaker hand than Hero, which is great. If he bets pot on the flop and Villian just calls, then comes the 3 on the turn, and Hero bets strong again, you would get him to lay down his weaker hand. No way Villian has 9s full here, who would bet so much with an almost unbeatable hand? Ace 9 is very rare considering how tight he is. I like a weakish lead on the flop..when he raises, just call...and then check raise that scared turn bet all in, because by then, he is committed.

Re: my least favorite situation in poker...400NL
 

I am not ready to classify an opponent as a rock after 50 hands. Saying that AQ/AJ will not play like that is just incorrect, people love those hands.

Re: my least favorite situation in poker...400NL
 

I udnerstand your fear, but when that 3 pairs, I feel like I just hit the jackpot and checkraise his ass allin. If hes got quads, well then hes got big ones for potting it. But i think you see AQ AJ enough here.

Re: my least favorite situation in poker...400NL
 

i dont agree with raising this hand utg+1 in the first place, anyone else agree?

dont fear the free card.
 

i actually check raise here alot in a deep stack game. when you check, although it looks fishy, the fact that there are 2 spades on board makes your thinking oppnents reason you really did miss and your unthinking opponents, well theyll do what they were gonna do anyway. generally, this means players are gonna bet all there made hands and draws right back into you and check behind when they really did miss everything. now you can checkraise. and players really have to put a set of aces high on your range of hands. you will fold out 2-pair alot here. you can robo muck to any re-raise and callers are generally drawing to beat a set.

if it gets checked behind. go for the cr again on the turn, your bet out will get raised light too often.

not fearing the free card is one of the huge things a winning player has to learn in big bet. bobby hoff is a master at this and is very hard to put on a hand because of it.

Re: my least favorite situation in poker...400NL
 

The least volatile line you can take here OOP is to bet 50 on the flop and then again on the turn if he raises you. If he raises your flop bet to 100, bet 100 on hte turn and fold to a raise would likely be the best line to take. Not many players would raise your bet there with one pair and it saves you a river bet if you just check/called the turn and now had to call a river bet.

This stop and go should signify real strength, defines your hand clearly, and you may even get a river check from A9 after doing so, not likely but possible.

If the 9 pairs on the turn, I would bet turn and 1/2 pot river

Re: my least favorite situation in poker...400NL
 

Bet at least $50 on the flop. Villain probably has KK-TT and senses weakness on your flop bet. I really doubt he has 99 here and pots the turn (unless he's a thinker and feels you have top pair and a fd).

Re: my least favorite situation in poker...400NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You made a standard opening bet, then bet half pot, then checked. How is villain supposed to know you're near as strong as you are. As far as I'm concerned, with the way you played, I put the rest of my chips in. This it AT-AQ far too often for you to be afraid. Medium aces love min-raising this flop to such a weak bet. And once you check the turn he probably puts you on a flush draw or something, or he thinks his AJ/AQ is good and is going for value.

[/ QUOTE ]

theres two things that make me think villian probably doesn't have AQ/AJ
1. He called a $15 bet from Utg pf...most rocks won't do this w/ AQ and definately not AJ and below.
2 He bet Pot on the turn. He seemed like a thinking player....why would he make such a huge bet that I would only call if I have him beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

let me try to clarify something here:
He can't have AQ here since he wouldn't bet it like that
He can't have any ace lower than AQ because he wouldn't call with those
He can't have 9's full because he knows you need a big hand to call here (you said it yourself) and there's no way you have one on that board.

So his hand range is zero :| Your read has to be off in one of those points.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never said he couldn't have 99. Thats why I folded. I put 99 and AK at the top of my list. A bluff/semibluff is also possible here.

Re: my least favorite situation in poker...400NL
 

I think the villian has either AK or AQ of spades.
The only other hand he could reasonably have is 99.

Either way, he is either freerolling you (9 outs), you are significantly ahead (31 outs for entire pot), or way behind (2 outs).

I think AQs is the least likely hand as I don't think a 14/5 would cold call a raise with it (I know I don't and I am 22/12). I would however cold call your raise with AKs or 99.

I would have folded to the flop min-raise, too often that is a set. Although it would be easier to fold if you just be the pot on the flop.

Re: my least favorite situation in poker...400NL
 

Check/raise turn all in. Lose stack. I always do that line the first time against the opponent here, though. Sometimes I'm pleasantly surprised and beat AQ or a draw.

Re: my least favorite situation in poker...400NL
 

Stick this in on the turn after his pot bet.

Bet more on the flop next time.

Re: my least favorite situation in poker...400NL
 

Yeti - Does this line change if OP had potted the flop and was min-raised? Thanks man.

Re: my least favorite situation in poker...400NL
 

if you just take the line I suggest, and if hes not a player that would read it for weakness or overvalue top pair in this spot... it really does decrease your volatility and makes your decisions easier.