Folding KK preflop for the first time ever
 

I recently folded K's preflop for the first time ever, and I wanted to know if anyone else agreed with me or if I made the wrong play.

I was playing on Full Tilt, $.25/50. I sat down with my normal $50 buy-in. I have only been playing on Full Tilt for 2 weeks, but I have made $300 in 40 hours in that time, so I'm doing well. My FOURTH hand, I'm in the CO seat with KK. I have not seen a flop yet, as every flop has been raised, and the table seems a little loose, which is good for me. There is one limper (UTG), and the next guy raises to $2. The next guy goes all-in for $120. I was really stuck, because I didn't know what the hell was going on. My first thought was AK or JJ, which is sometimes the play in a tournament for psychos who hate seeing the flop with these two hands, but because it was cash, and the table was crazy, the guy may have had AA and just might thought he'd get a call because it was a such a whacko play. Another thing I thought about was the fact that the guy had run is buy-in ($50 max) up to $120, so either the guy was getting really lucky or had some idea of what he was doing. Rather than just calling and going "doh, I lost $50," I opted to fold. I ended up winning $15 in 2 hours in this session, but this hand was sitting in the back of my mind the whole time. Did I make the right play?

Thanks,

~Bux

Re: Folding KK preflop for the first time ever
 

Harrington said it well....
"Im not good enough to fold KK preflop. Neither are you."

In this situation Id call, but I am not one of the NEVER fold PF ppl. Ive done it, to a guy with a VPIP of like 5 and a 0 PFR over 200 hands, and even then i didnt like it.

Re: Folding KK preflop for the first time ever
 

there are situations where i fold KK, this however is not one of them. now if he open raised and someome rr'ed and i 3 bet and he pushed a fold becomes more of an option...

Re: Folding KK preflop for the first time ever
 

man i call and go "doh, I lost $50" here

these situations just flip a coin and blame it on heads if you lose

Re: Folding KK preflop for the first time ever
 

Usually you'll still see JJ or AK in this situation. I folded KK today after a limpreraise then a push, but in general I hate it. That's basically the minumum action for me to fold. If the guy wants to open push or push over a normal raise I call everytime with KK. AA vs KK just doesn't happen enough to worry about.

Re: Folding KK preflop for the first time ever
 

Thanks for the advice. You're all probably right, and looking back on it after the situation is over, I think I should have called. Weird coincidence, I just was reading the new cardplayer and Negreanu folding K's preflop and it turned out the guy had Q's, so even the greats are sometimes wrong!

~Bux

Re: Folding KK preflop for the first time ever
 

[ QUOTE ]
man i call and go "doh, I lost $50" here

these situations just flip a coin and blame it on heads if you lose

[/ QUOTE ]

I only flip a coin here if its a 2-headed coin.

Re: Folding KK preflop for the first time ever
 

I call here. At the PP $25 tables, I'm invariably pleasantly surprised when I see the other guys cards. AK, ATs(!), JJ, etc. On the flip side, I have a friend who's 5/5 at pushing PF with aces and getting calls from lower pocket pairs. I think he's the anomaly, though.

Re: Folding KK preflop for the first time ever
 

this is never a fold IMO. I want raise, re-raise and a push from a stand up player before i think about folding and even then its bugging me for the next 20 minutes (25NL by the way)

Re: Folding KK preflop for the first time ever
 

I read to the part where you said you were playing 50nl. Don't fold.

Re: Folding KK preflop for the first time ever
 

You sound extremely results-oriented and scared.

Having twice the max buy-in on the table does not mean that anyone is a good player.

Winning six buy-ins last week doesn't have any impact on what you should do today.

Winning $15 doesn't have any impact on what you should have done two hours ago.

Re: Folding KK preflop for the first time ever
 

[ QUOTE ]
Harrington said it well....
"Im not good enough to fold KK preflop. Neither are you."

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you realize you are quoting him out of context? He was talking about tournaments, where people often have under 20 times the big blind. There isn't room to figure out that KK is no good when the stacks are short. There is room with 100 BB stacks, whether or not it is right to fold here.

In the Negreanu example, the stacks were deep.

Re: Folding KK preflop for the first time ever
 

"One excellent rule for NLH is this: if you can't allow yourself to fold the best hand, then you can't win." Phil Hellmuth, Jr. page 147 in Play Poker Like the Pros.
He goes on to say "If it was the winner, so what? You made your decision, and you're still at the table with chips. Stay focused on winning, not on looking back at your untimely fold."
I'm with Phil.

Re: Folding KK preflop for the first time ever
 

[ QUOTE ]
"One excellent rule for NLH is this: if you can't allow yourself to fold the best hand, then you can't win." Phil Hellmuth, Jr. page 147 in Play Poker Like the Pros.
He goes on to say "If it was the winner, so what? You made your decision, and you're still at the table with chips. Stay focused on winning, not on looking back at your untimely fold."
I'm with Phil.

[/ QUOTE ]

Buy a new book! BTW, I think phil is referring to tournaments here, because in a cash game you can rebuy if you lose...

Re: Folding KK preflop for the first time ever
 

Yeah that really sounds like tournament only argument.

Re: Folding KK preflop for the first time ever
 

If I had a dollar for everytime I saw someone at these limits push a huge stack with a mid pair I'd have the 120 bucks you probably would have won here.

Re: Folding KK preflop for the first time ever
 

There are a few guys at 200 NL that raise about 1/500 hands. Against them, I would fold KK preflop, but it has never come up.

Definitely a call here at 50 NL here, villain could have as low as AJ in my experience, and he could also be tilting (you've only been here for four hands) - maybe he lost a big one before you sat down.