another good draw turn push
 

villain here is 16.7/2.9/1.33. you like?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

UTG ($2177)
UTG+1 ($2107)
UTG+2 ($580)
Hero ($4663.50)
MP2 ($2047)
MP3 ($2317)
CO ($1620)
Button ($5220)
SB ($2131)
BB ($1800)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $10.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $70</font>, MP2 calls $70, MP3 calls $70, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB (poster) calls $60, BB calls $50.

Flop: ($350) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $200</font>, MP2 calls $200, MP3 folds, SB folds, BB folds
Turn: ($750) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets $500, Hero pushes.

Re: another good draw turn push
 

I don't like this one.

You have very little fold equity against this guy here, and he is ahead nearly all the time. Even AQ (no diamonds) has you crushed right now, and in order for him to bet that turn, I think we can easily assume he has that hand as an absolute minimum. He's also already put in close to half his money.

You can find better spots.

Re: another good draw turn push
 

Hero is 35% to win against AQ. He is hardly crushed.
MP2 has $1200 behind him. Hero does have fold equity.

Re: another good draw turn push
 

Eh, the way OP plays, at least given the hands he posts here, this would be a fairly easy call for an observant opponent w AQ or better.

And....

In order to bet that turn villain has to have AQ or better.


So...

Re: another good draw turn push
 

I like this play a lot. Great move. The push leaves him with a way out(enough money left to play) if he folds.
The amount of outs you have is insane 9 diamonds, 2 each of 9's and A's (not including the diamonds of course) and 3 each of J's and K's= 19
You could probably take a few away if you include his hand.

Once again I love this play.

Re: another good draw turn push
 

Hi Baronzeus,

I think the play is a beauty,

Can i assume that MP2 is somewhat obvservant and tight, and you are representing AK after a cont bet on the flop?

Re: another good draw turn push
 

Some of you guys are [censored] hilarious. Villian could have AQ, or he could HAVE ANY [censored] HAND WITH A 9!!! or a set, etc.. I think the play is ok, its definitly not brilliant, and its very read dependant.

Re: another good draw turn push
 

I think a lot of you just see a big draw and assume it's a push. In doing this you fail to look at all of the other things that swirl around these hands.

Re: another good draw turn push
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think a lot of you just see a big draw and assume it's a push. In doing this you fail to look at all of the other things that swirl around these hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: another good draw turn push
 

push the flop

Re: another good draw turn push
 

some good replies.

im relatively unknown in the NL poker world. my turn pushes never get called so no one ever sees my hans. which is good for metagame. the only way someone could know that it's an easy call with a set or AQ knows my username, and only two people know it besides me. AND THEY ARENT ALLOWED TO TELL.

as for this push. hands like Q9, T9, etc are all possibilities, as are sets. but after I bet the flop, then checkraise the turn all in, it's REALLY hard for the opponent to call me here with anything less than a lone 9. i was trying to represent AK here, which bet the flop then decided to test my opponent. i know i can't get a 9 to fold, but you have to admit, on a QJT8 board it's REALLY hard for him to call with 88 or TT even, given that he doesnt know me.


like ggbman said, it's somewhere around "OK" IMO. i didnt want to flat call such a gay underbet on the turn so i decided to make him put in 1600 more or so (almost the whole size of the pot) to see the river, in case he had a set.

Re: another good draw turn push
 

[ QUOTE ]
and its very read dependant.

[/ QUOTE ]


lol you can hand read in NL?

Re: another good draw turn push
 

Your thought process is really good here. I don't play online, and a number of your recent posts have seemed very similar to this one, leading me to believe that you overbet semi-bluff a lot. I would also assume that others notice, but since you are an unknown, maybe not. If you are currently viewed as TAGish, then this move looks better than I initially thought, as I assumed you were seen as LAGish.

Anyway, when table dynamics are right, this is a nice play. When they are not, it is not. I just think we all have a tendency to fall in love with certain moves because they look perfect and we sometimes lose sight of the important mitigating factors.

The primary reason I reacted a little negatively in this instance, was that it appeared to me that villain's turn bet said he was ready to play a big pot.

Re: another good draw turn push
 

lets just say, on the safe side, that baron plays 2 tables. at 6-max, you can get probably an average of 60 hands at a table. players switch in an out. on a huge site like partypoker, you can play a villain for 2 hours and never see him again.

how often do you really think a hand like this comes up in, say, a 5 hour session? that's 600 hands total for 2 tables - say you play 150 of those hands, how many of those are going to be big check-raise all-in semi-bluffs? more importantly, if there are more than one, how close do they have to be? how close is villain paying attention? are they even on the same table?

it's not that difficult for someone to play 1k hands a day online, and have at least one big semi-bluff in that session. i think its rare that youll have this situation come up at the same table more than once with the same opponents

which is why i think moves like this work much more effectively online, as it's hard for him to call 1600 more with anything less than a lone 9

Re: another good draw turn push
 

Were you hoping for someone to raise your flop bet? I can't think of many (any?) hands I'd bet half pot with on that board against four opponents. The flop play just doesn't really feel consistent with what you're representing on the turn.

Re: another good draw turn push
 

[ QUOTE ]
Were you hoping for someone to raise your flop bet? I can't think of many (any?) hands I'd bet half pot with on that board against four opponents. The flop play just doesn't really feel consistent with what you're representing on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

scared AK?

Re: another good draw turn push
 

i dont know if i like it given how passive he is and that he just bet the turn. that said it can only be so wrong.

Re: another good draw turn push
 

i dont know if i like it given how passive he is and that he just bet the turn. that said it can only be so wrong. i would prob like a reraise on the flop better when hes less likely to have an auto call but then again theres no way he folds a set so...and a bluff is a lot harder to diagnose as a big draw on the turn, so all in all i think it dosent matter much either way but id be leaning away from it against this guy.
matty

Re: another good draw turn push
 

Do you usually bluff AK unimproved into 4 opponents?
What hand(s) with a 9 would u play this way? No way I risk a free card on this type of board with a 9.

A thinking opponent will have a hard time putting you on a hand here. That said the push is neither great nor terrible, but I think its a loser overall.

Re: another good draw turn push
 

I would say he has A-K.

Re: another good draw turn push
 

16.7/2.9/1.33 dont like to continue calling pfr with overs/gutshot in my experience, esp w/o FD in this case

Re: another good draw turn push
 

Would it be wrong to just call instead of pushing?