Anyone else feel guilty taking loose passive\'s money?
 

I have no problem taking money from LAGS or TAGS. They're trying to do the same to me and I would love nothing more than to punk them as hard as possible. But when I play against the really loose passives, sometimes I feel bad about taking their money. They're just so over matched. They have no chance against me at all unless the deck just completely screws me. It almost feels like robbery.

Re: Anyone else feel guilty taking loose passive\'s money?
 

I would check raise my grandmother for the last of her social security check. If you do not have that attitude at the poker table, you are probably playing the wrong game.

Re: Anyone else feel guilty taking loose passive\'s money?
 

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I would check raise my grandmother for the last of her social security check. If you do not have that attitude at the poker table, you are probably playing the wrong game.

[/ QUOTE ]

No you would not. Stop trying to look tough.

Re: Anyone else feel guilty taking loose passive\'s money?
 

I dont want to hijack, but does anyone feel worse taking peoples money in live games verses online games? i have no problem at all pwning people online, but when I see the poor hardworking people losing their paycheck, i cant help but to feel a little bad. I still pwn them, but i dont like doing it.

Re: Anyone else feel guilty taking loose passive\'s money?
 

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I have no problem taking money from LAGS or TAGS. They're trying to do the same to me and I would love nothing more than to punk them as hard as possible. But when I play against the really loose passives, sometimes I feel bad about taking their money. They're just so over matched. They have no chance against me at all unless the deck just completely screws me. It almost feels like robbery.

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The feeling goes away after a while. Just give it some time. Btw, in case anybody thinks that this is a joking reply, it isn't. I used to feel that way also.

Re: Anyone else feel guilty taking loose passive\'s money?
 

No because for some god damn reason they always have KK when I have QQ, AJ when I have AT, 2 pair when I have an overpair, made flush on the flop when I have a set. WHEN WILL IT END?!?!?!?!?!

Re: Anyone else feel guilty taking loose passive\'s money?
 

And so that is this game of poker...

Get over it, you are winning!

Re: Anyone else feel guilty taking loose passive\'s money?
 

You're taking people's money?

I don't ever take anything from anyone; they inexplicably give it to me.

Re: Anyone else feel guilty taking loose passive\'s money?
 

Well over 80%+ of your opponents in poker are loose passive players (LPP) usually more except in rare cases of extremely wild games or shark infested tables.

There is no way that you can play poker on a regular basis and constantly really feel guilty about talking $ from LPP because then you wouldnt play beacuse that is what you do in poker.

Winning poker is based on LPP's dumping $ in -EV situations. They are going to lose chips anyway if you arent at the table so you might as well collect it from them.

Re: Anyone else feel guilty taking loose passive\'s money?
 

I feel a wee bit guilty once in awhile when it is in a live game, only because most loose passive folk I have come across are friendly people that I enjoy hanging out with. It's nothing that would make me play them any differently though. But I also find that they have a lower regard for the money generally then I do, and most times are not very cognizant of the fact that they were outplayed, just got unlucky.

Re: Anyone else feel guilty taking loose passive\'s money?
 

Id feel guilty for missing value bets against them

Re: Anyone else feel guilty taking loose passive\'s money?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have no problem taking money from LAGS or TAGS. They're trying to do the same to me and I would love nothing more than to punk them as hard as possible. But when I play against the really loose passives, sometimes I feel bad about taking their money. They're just so over matched. They have no chance against me at all unless the deck just completely screws me. It almost feels like robbery.

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Seems like evidence that you haven't been on a horrendous streak yet. When you go through that, your view will change on this.

This line:
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They have no chance against me at all unless the deck just completely screws me.

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Is just moronic. You can easily be the best player on the table and get your asshanders award for a few sessions.

b

Re: Anyone else feel guilty taking loose passive\'s money?
 

Hi Jinx,

I'll go against the grain and say that I sometimes feel this way too. It doesn't affect my behavior, though. I don't feel bad for them and fail to value bet. I continue to value bet and sometimes feel a little bit bad about it.

Re: Anyone else feel guilty taking loose passive\'s money?
 

Bernie is right on the money.

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You can easily be the best player on the table and get your asshanders award for a few sessions.


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And when it happens, and yes, it will happen, your view changes dramatically.

Onaflag...........

Re: Anyone else feel guilty taking loose passive\'s money?
 

Guessing from what I've seen on SSSH, I think Jinx has played a lot of shorthanded and is probably very familiar with downswings. I think you guys are focusing on the wrong issue. He's probably talking about a player who limps along with 90% of his hands, and check-calls down Q high. The kind that you wonder if he even knows the rules of poker.

Re: Anyone else feel guilty taking loose passive\'s money?
 

There's no doubt about it: to be a winning player at cash games, it is necessary to be a predator. Loose-passive players are our prey. They are what keep the games going.

If you can't come to terms with being a predator, then don't play cash games. Stick to tournaments.

Some people come to terms with being a predator through denial or something like it. ("I'm not taking their money; they are giving it to me!") Others simply ignore the prickings of their consciences.

Personally, I believe that the very best hunters have empathy and understanding for those whom they hunt.

Re: Anyone else feel guilty taking loose passive\'s money?
 

That's what makes you and I different, if they're willing to give it up, I'm willing to take it. Hell, I have a family to take care of. I guess I just possess a certain, "moral flexibility."

Re: Anyone else feel guilty taking loose passive\'s money?
 

watch the color of money, the scene where cruise is dumping games to someone else.

Re: Anyone else feel guilty taking loose passive\'s money?
 

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I would check raise my grandmother for the last of her social security check

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awesome, i couldn't have said it better myself

if anything, you are doing them a service...if they are smart, they will feel the sting soon enough and either wise up and win or not risk money they can't afford to be losing

Re: Anyone else feel guilty taking loose passive\'s money?
 

A drugdealer can say " if i dont sell drugs other people do it ", " they want the drugs, so i do it ". In fact poker is a "ugly" business, i say myself everytime "they want MY MONEY and i have to protect it". I am sure that many people have heavy problems with addicted onlinegambling, and sure we are a bit guilty........but Party and co are more guilty.

Re: Anyone else feel guilty taking loose passive\'s money?
 

I don't get it. These people want to take my money. But there's a flaw in their game. Either they play results based or something else. My guess is they wouldn't feel a bit sorry for me if they got my money.

Re: Anyone else feel guilty taking loose passive\'s money?
 

According to Alan Schoonmaker, the goal of a loose passive is to socialize or just spend time having fun and gambling with other people. They get what they want: company. I get what I want: their money. We both win.

Re: Anyone else feel guilty taking loose passive\'s money?
 

I still try to take their money. But against TAGS and LAGS i feel genuinely happy that I'm beating them instead of just being happy that I'm winning money. Against the loose passives it's more like, oh yay, more money.

As others have said, it's not so bad online. But in real life, when you see the workers just getting off their 9-5 jobs, playing well over what their paychecks can afford them, it's just kinda like, huh. How am I really any different from a drug dealer? Aside from the somewhat arbitrary difference that one's legal and the other's not.

Poker makes me far more money than anything else I could be doing at the moment, and I can rationalize it that pretty much 99% of all businesses are screwing someone. But I guess it's just a bit harder when you're actually seeing the people you're screwing.

And the loose passives have a 0% chance of taking my money over a significant enough sample size. I've played enough poker to know that someone who won't raise me with top 2 pair stands no chance against me over enough hands.

The problem seems to be self fixing itself though. At low levels it's not enough money to make me feel guilty, and at the higher levels it's mostly TAGS and LAGS that play.

Re: Anyone else feel guilty taking loose passive\'s money?
 

I've never felt guilty about taking someone's money. But there have been times where I felt bad for the person.

I was playing 2/4 on party the other day. One of my fish was talking about how he had lost 4k. He was talking to another player (who, ironically, was even worse than him) and asking if there was some way to close his account perminitly, so he could never put money on there again. A had no issue taking his money, 'cause someone else would have if I didn't. And if no one else did he'd probably spend it on something stupid.

But it was sad, IMO. Then I started thinking about how many of the terrible players on there are in the same situation as this guy. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Anyone else feel guilty taking loose passive\'s money?
 

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A drugdealer can say " if i dont sell drugs other people do it ", " they want the drugs, so i do it ". In fact poker is a "ugly" business, i say myself everytime "

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What's funny about this tangent is that I is that I don't think drug dealers are inherently doing anything especially wrong either; they're just opportunists taking advantage of people's stupidity and laws that shouldn't exist.

In fact, here's the parallel as I see it: I have no problem with drug dealers who just give the junkies/bored college students what they want. If a drug dealer were to hang around a high school campus trying to get clean teenagers to start trying his stuff, then I could see a moral objection. Similarly, I'm not actively trying to get anyone to go play poker and lose their money; if I had more rich friends and said "hey guys lets start trying this poker thing on weekends" and then talked them into playing high enough buyins that I could supplement my income with it, that would be a scummy thing to do. However, if someone is going to voluntarily start throwing their money around the table, and I happen to sit down and start catching it...not my problem.

I have given fish playing advice...away from the table, after they asked me for it. I've also told one guy to leave a game after he hinted that he was playing with money he couldn't afford to lose. He didn't listen to me, then flopped trips against my kings full and I busted him. Not my problem.

(BTW, while I don't have a moral problem with poker, saying that the winning players "provide entertainment" is just silly rationalization. The fish would have just as much entertainment if they only played other fish and only the rake was winning. Look at the success of completely -EV house games.)

Re: Anyone else feel guilty taking loose passive\'s money?
 

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I still try to take their money. But against TAGS and LAGS i feel genuinely happy that I'm beating them instead of just being happy that I'm winning money. Against the loose passives it's more like, oh yay, more money.

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See above responses regarding your eventual downswing at the hands of a calling station.

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As others have said, it's not so bad online. But in real life, when you see the workers just getting off their 9-5 jobs, playing well over what their paychecks can afford them, it's just kinda like, huh. How am I really any different from a drug dealer? Aside from the somewhat arbitrary difference that one's legal and the other's not.

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No one is forcing these people to sit in a game. Why don't you leave them alone and let them do what they want with their money? And...as to how you are differenct from a drug dealer...a drug dealer never has to worry that he's going to end up with the same amount of money as when he started, but less drugs to sell.

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Poker makes me far more money than anything else I could be doing at the moment, and I can rationalize it that pretty much 99% of all businesses are screwing someone. But I guess it's just a bit harder when you're actually seeing the people you're screwing.

[/ QUOTE ] This is a rather jaded outlook on the world and business. By and large, businesses are NOT screwing someone, because competitive pressure does not allow them to. The laws of supply and demand suggest that they cannot do so for an extended period of time without dire consequences. AND...let's not forget that doing business with someone is not a one-sided thing...you trade your money for their good or service. If the money's more valuable to you, keep it, and don't get the good or service.

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And the loose passives have a 0% chance of taking my money over a significant enough sample size. I've played enough poker to know that someone who won't raise me with top 2 pair stands no chance against me over enough hands.

The problem seems to be self fixing itself though. At low levels it's not enough money to make me feel guilty, and at the higher levels it's mostly TAGS and LAGS that play.

[/ QUOTE ] Look, I understand your feelings of sympathy for the fish. But, as others have said, NEVER forget this game is kill-or-be-killed. We all risk the exact same thing in this game...you, me, and the rest of the forum just choose to risk it more intelligently...and you are being paid for that intelligence.

Re: Anyone else feel guilty taking loose passive\'s money?
 

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I believe that the very best hunters have empathy and understanding for those whom they hunt.

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There is a big difference between empathy and sympathy.

I empathize with losing players all the time, but I have absolutely no sympathy for them. They could just as easily put in the time and effort as I did to better their games. It's their own fault they suck.

b

Re: Anyone else feel guilty taking loose passive\'s money?
 

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He's probably talking about a player who limps along with 90% of his hands, and check-calls down Q high. The kind that you wonder if he even knows the rules of poker.


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What type of player did you think we were talking about?

b

Re: Anyone else feel guilty taking loose passive\'s money?
 

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But in real life, when you see the workers just getting off their 9-5 jobs, playing well over what their paychecks can afford them, it's just kinda like, huh.

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Actually it's kinda like, huh...none of your business how they choose to spend their money. Not to mention, you don't know if they have a ton of money somewhere else and the amount they drop may mean little to them.

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But I guess it's just a bit harder when you're actually seeing the people you're screwing.


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Funny that you associate success, basically in anything including business endeavors, with screwing someone. Unless you're cheating, you aren't screwing anyone at a poker table. You're also not forcing anyone to sit down and play. You're being rewarded for the hard work you spent on your game. Hard work that others at the table could have done just as easily. Why should one feel guilty about being rewarded for that?

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And the loose passives have a 0% chance of taking my money over a significant enough sample size.

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Neither do maniacs or other players of less skill. So what?

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and at the higher levels it's mostly TAGS and LAGS that play.

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You will run into plenty of terrible players at higher levels. Btw...many LAGs are just as bad off and pathetic, moneywise, in real life as the passives you're referring to. Which is another reason I think your view of this is pretty limited and somewhat naive.

b

Re: Anyone else feel guilty taking loose passive\'s money?
 

After your first 100k hands, you will have virtually NO feeling left in you.
Good, Bad, Ugly, Grandma on a pension; Pedophile,
When they are standing around, they are people. I see them I say Hi.
AS SOON as they sit down they they are all the same to me = VILLIAN1, VILLIAN2, VILLIAN3, VILLIAN4,VILLIAN5
You = HERO!
When you are playing hero vs villian, Who do you want to win??