Is bubble play limited to 4 handed?
 

I read a post today where someone described a hand as a bubble hand, and another poster replied that it wasn't a bubble hand because there were still 5 players left.

Re: Is bubble play limited to 4 handed?
 

a better question is why does it matter?

but i consider it to start at 5 players in a SNG.

Re: Is bubble play limited to 4 handed?
 

technically it's when 4 are left but when 4-6 are left and blinds are high i think it's usually called a bubble situation.

Re: Is bubble play limited to 4 handed?
 

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a better question is why does it matter?

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If clearing up misconceptions doesn't matter to you, then feel free to enjoy all of SFB's OT posts. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Re: Is bubble play limited to 4 handed?
 

In poker terminology, a bubble is when the next person eliminated receives nothing but the 2nd person to be eliminated receives money. Finishing 5th is the same as finishing 4th.

Re: Is bubble play limited to 4 handed?
 

Bubble play, not bubble. See the difference?

Re: Is bubble play limited to 4 handed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Bubble play, not bubble. See the difference?

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You might play it like you were on the bubble, but it still wouldn't be a bubble hand.

Re: Is bubble play limited to 4 handed?
 

Was I the one who said it wasn't a bubble hand? I think I remember that post. If I remember correctly, the OP in that post was trying to keep the 5-man "bubble" alive because he was a big stack. I was just pointing out that I didn't think it was a good idea because it wasn't actually the bubble yet.

Re: Is bubble play limited to 4 handed?
 

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Was I the one who said it wasn't a bubble hand?

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No.
This is the thread that got me thinking about it, but I really don't want to turn this into a discussion of that hand, so if you have anything to say about it, say it over there.

Re: Is bubble play limited to 4 handed?
 

I think the definition of bubble as being 'the next one out is the last one to not get money' means bubble = 4 handed, and so 'bubble play' is 'play made on the bubble', but whatever.

Re: Is bubble play limited to 4 handed?
 

Ahh, ok. This is the hand I was talking about. My memory was wrong. It has nothing to do with keeping the bubble alive. But I did get into an arguement about what is and what isn't bubble.

Re: Is bubble play limited to 4 handed?
 

The OP in that thread makes an intersting point: even though there were five players left, if he won the pot he was in the money and if he lost he would have been out. That sounds like a bubble to me.

Re: Is bubble play limited to 4 handed?
 

Of course I don't see the difference. Bubble play would appear to be "play while on the bubble".

Anyway, in a typical 9 or 10 man SNG, the payouts are as follows:
4th: $0
5th: $0

See the difference?

Re: Is bubble play limited to 4 handed?
 

Actually he would not, one of the blinds had him covered by about 200 chips.

Re: Is bubble play limited to 4 handed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Of course I don't see the difference. Bubble play would appear to be "play while on the bubble".

Anyway, in a typical 9 or 10 man SNG, the payouts are as follows:
4th: $0
5th: $0

See the difference?

[/ QUOTE ]

They are for 6th-10th as well, so should a 10 handed play be 'bubble play' too? It just makes things confusing, because you're expecting to see a post whereby losing the hand means you're out of the money, and winning it means in the money. If you start having 5-handed and 6-handed included, it makes a mockery of the whole thing; you won't be able to tell from a topic title what the OP is on about! That is why I don't like it.

Re: Is bubble play limited to 4 handed?
 

I think you are missing the point.
The reason we all spend so much time on bubble play isn't because 4th place doesn't win any money. The reason we focus on bubble play is because other players tighten up and we can exploit them. Sometimes this shappens when there are more than 4 people left. If you don't take this into account because there are still 5 players, then you are making a mistake.
As for your sarcastic remark about making 10 handed bubble play, I contend that there is a theoretical situation in which it could happen. It is highly unlikely, but still possible.

Re: Is bubble play limited to 4 handed?
 

[mediate]

I'm certain both sides are arguing semantics only. I doubt that those opposed to your definition are not accepting of the belief that the style of play put to use, in that-term-that-describes-the-one-from-the-money-situation would not also be found with 5, 6, possibly more remaining.

Short-handed/Big-blinds play? SHBB? EiPFM=Everyone in Push/fold Mode? Bubble? Meh...whatever

[/mediation]

Re: Is bubble play limited to 4 handed?
 

Screw the technical definition, I'm fine about calling it bubble if it plays like the bubble. Bubble should be judged by the psychological influences nearing the money has on a players actions, and not if it's exactly 1 from the money.

Re: Is bubble play limited to 4 handed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Screw the technical definition, I'm fine about calling it bubble if it plays like the bubble. Bubble should be judged by the psychological influences nearing the money has on a players actions, and not if it's exactly 1 from the money.

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I agree, two examples:

1) 4 players left:

A) 4000 chips
B) 2000 chips
C) 2000 chips
D) 2000 chips

blinds 15/30. Is this the bubble? No players are under big pressure to be blinded out.


2) 5 players left.

A) 5000 chips
B) 3000 chips
C) 1000 chips
D) 500 chips
E) 500 chips

Blinds: 150-300. Is this the bubble?

Re: Is bubble play limited to 4 handed?
 

#1 yes it's a bubble, the blinds don't have to be high for a bubble situation to occur.

#2 no it's not a bubble. A person can be eliminated and the remaining players aren't ITM.

Re: Is bubble play limited to 4 handed?
 

In response to #1. Yes...yes it is the bubble. It's the very definition of bubble, the next person to get knocked out is the last one to not make money.

Re: Is bubble play limited to 4 handed?
 

So are you guys actaully unwilling to make make bubble adjustments until there are only 4 players left or are you just blindly defending the definition?

Re: Is bubble play limited to 4 handed?
 

Now you're arguing semantics. Of course you adjust. It's not adjusting to the bubble, it's just adjusting to being short-handed. You can be shorthanded without being on the bubble.

Re: Is bubble play limited to 4 handed?
 

Technically yes, but still #2 feels more like the bubble than #1. In #2 the nr of hands before people gets ITM should on average be much smaller than in #1.

Re: Is bubble play limited to 4 handed?
 

The bubble is a psychological thing except in blatantly obvious chip situations. So if a guy really tightens up 5 handed, then it is the bubble for him.

Mathematically, 5 handed isn't the bubble the same way 4 handed is.

Re: Is bubble play limited to 4 handed?
 

Noodle,

The bubble "technically" is when there is one player remaining, I believe.

However, "the bubble" is when the mindset changes so that the gap gets crazy.

In, for example, a step 5, that starts when the game starts.

c

Re: Is bubble play limited to 4 handed?
 

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The bubble is a psychological thing except in blatantly obvious chip situations. So if a guy really tightens up 5 handed, then it is the bubble for him.

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You're supposed to play tighter on the button. Hmmm, I knew I was doing something wrong.

Re: Is bubble play limited to 4 handed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The bubble is a psychological thing except in blatantly obvious chip situations. So if a guy really tightens up 5 handed, then it is the bubble for him.

[/ QUOTE ]
You're supposed to play tighter on the button. Hmmm, I knew I was doing something wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

huh?