Valued Posts and Posters
 

I guess I have been here about 8 months or so reading this forum-- because PLO8 is my game of choice. I've always enjoyed the forum because it is a fairly small community and I am constantly learning and being entertained.

I realized pretty quickly that I got the most entertainment value-- and exposure to different styles from RIBBO and WINTERMUTE who both write well, appear to have a desire to teach, (or perhaps a superiority complex) are good aggressive players, and are generally entertaining.

Ribbo seems to have gone into seclusion over peoples' reactions to his ego, and WM seems to be on some rebellious kick since being censored. As much as I appreciate his humor, now with his latest bogus stat post [6789 thread], like Buzz, I am having trouble assigning any meaning to his strategy posts, as a healthy percentage of what he says is meant as a joke. It is almost like he has adopted a game theory value to how often his posts will be sincere, and how often his posts will be false advertising. Perhaps this is intentional, perhaps he is just acting out. I don't know.

I'm not sure what role the more aggressive moderation has in all of this, if any. But I would really like to see humor and analysis co-exist without censorship, AND to have people make it a little more clear when they are being sarcastic so there is less danger of people misinterpreting humor as serious advice, especially from a poster whom we take for granted is a very theoretically knowlegeable player. While I found the 6789 thread advice by WM to be suspect and possibly a prank. Someone who has not read the forum for as long as I have might not.

WM feel free to drop a "crybaby" pic on me so I know you've returned to your normal self.

Re: Valued Posts and Posters
 

Since reading material on PLO/8 is so limited, I learned to play pretty much through my own experimentation along with help from this forum. LO8 advice from Buzz and PLO8 advice from Wintermute and Ribbo (to name only two) definitely molded me as a player. Now, I'm far from a PLO/8 guru, but I know enough to recognize advice that is blatantly good or bad. I admit nine months ago, good advice was probably easier to find just because the forum was smaller than it is today (btw, whatever happened to JoshuaMayes??). Now it's grown and at times you have to be selective about whose advice to read. "Test everything. Hold on to the good." For the most part, the advice on here is still good and very good compared to other forums. For many reasons, this is my favorite forum on 2+2, I hope that it stays that way.

Re: Valued Posts and Posters
 

I take it FatBallz is WinterMute. Sorry, I’m rather new.

Anyways, FB seems like a very knowledgeable poster, but like every poster, you have to take everything at face value.

Becoming a better player happens by learning AND experimenting. You can not be successful doing one and not the other. It would be nice if you could count on everything everyone says to be of truth, but that’s not being a realist.

Take what guys like FB say, and then test them out. See if they work. See if it applies to your style of play. That’s the only way you will become a better PLO8/LO8 player.

Re: Valued Posts and Posters
 

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(btw, whatever happened to JoshuaMayes?)

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No kidding, he was the best poster here. My guess is that he realized he was getting *nothing* out of posting here (not even entertainment value) and so just left. Nothing wrong with that, but too bad.

Re: Valued Posts and Posters
 

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As much as I appreciate his humor, now with his latest bogus stat post [6789 thread], like Buzz, I am having trouble assigning any meaning to his strategy posts, as a healthy percentage of what he says is meant as a joke.

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You can't judge by tone and context that these posts are legimate advice?

1
2
3
4

whereas the 6789 one was a joke, when I included the following:

"If you smugly check-raise him on the flop and then lead the turn blind, not only will you stand a good chance of being raised blind, which will allow you to then reraise in the dark as well, which *occasionally* will lead to an in-the-dark cap and subsequent in-the-dark-of-the-dark river blind-lead by you, I promise you this seemingly marginal holding will reap a significant win over time."

How the F can you interpret that as honest advice?

If you're ever in doubt, just DO THE MATH YOURSELF. Don't you see that it will make you a better player? If you just want numbers and the like spoonfed to you, you're not going to improve. If you read that 6789 thread and genuinely though "gee, that's surprising" and then got your ass over to 2 dimes and ran some simulations of 6789 vs. other hands, you would quickly recognize the joke.

I don't buy this joke-posts-ruining-the-validity-of-other-posts theory, unless you are

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...man_retard.jpg

Re: Valued Posts and Posters
 

congratulations!

This thread sucks graphic is a brand new all time low!

Re: Valued Posts and Posters
 

Well, for whatever reason, this forum seems to ossicilate between very sleepy with a nice steady two or three strategy posts a day and orgies of ego. I really value, or maybe "valued" in the past tense with regards to Ribbo, wintermute and ribbo's strategy post and their posts are solid and will make you $$$. But, I do wish they would pursue mind-games, noob-blasting and crazy-picture posting in more appropriate places like OOT, BBV or NVG. But, I'm only going to censor things that are total off-topic, pornographic, spam, or otherwise violating the T&Cs. If I don't like something that isnt one of those things, I use PM and leave it up to the poster whether to change it or not.

Whatever the case may be, I am in a tough situation because I have a libertarian streak and don't like to be overly-paternalistic. It annoys me to have to lock threads and edit posts that aren't either (a) totally off-topic (b) spam. But, I've been charged with the task of keeping the poker strategy discussion to noise ratio at a good level and if I have to be more aggressive about that it would be bad for everybody.

Edit: Edited my post for clarity.

Re: Valued Posts and Posters
 

I didn't know that Fatballz was wintermute.

I was going to mention how I liked Fatballz posts and Gergery's posts. When there's controversy over a hand, I gravitate toward their posts to clear up things.

I found the 6789 hand funny. Even if you didn't catch the joke then when it is head to head vs. AA23s, the raising blind part clues you in that's a prank.

I suppose that's a better post than someone who isn't as knowledgeable, like me, spouting off wrongness without giving any clue that it might be wrong.

Also, experts should be given leeway here. Otherwise they'll leave. If there is a problem, the moderator should first try pm'ing them. Praise should be public, criticism private.

Re: Valued Posts and Posters
 

I'm very new to O8, and I originally took Fatballz post as correct. It was a surprising result, but I run into surprising things in poker all the time! (It never crossed my mind that someone would falsify twodimes results and make what appeared to be a serious post. I guess the joke's on me.) I'm glad Buzz and others came along to correct this misinformation.

With that being said, I took the easy route and am now ignoring FatBallz posts. He may post some great information, but I'll never see it. As a newbie without the O8 knowledge to know good advice from bad advice, its just not worth it.

Re: Valued Posts and Posters
 

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Also, experts should be given leeway here.

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I totally agree. I gave Ribbo all kinds of leeway but it was something short of a handjob so he scooted.

Re: Valued Posts and Posters
 

This forum needs to lighten up.

If you didn't know that AA23 was a fav over 6789 then you are pretty new to this game. Either way, several people pointed out that he was joking.

Winter and ribbo may tick some people off, but they both undeniably understand PLO8 very well, and reading their posts will make everyone here better at that game.

If you ignore them, it's your loss, and I'd really question why you come to the forum.

You should never be taking anything anyone says on these forums at face value. Doing your own thinking and challenging the thinking of others is how you get better.

-g

Re: Valued Posts and Posters
 

WM, my point isn't that you have deceived ME yet, it is that lately you have exhibited a desire to mislead people as a prank-- along with giving real advice. I don't take what you post as the gospel to begin with so I am somewhat insulated from this, but I'd like to think that when you are posting advice about hands, strategy and statistics that you are being sincere, and not making somebody the butt of your inside joke.

My premise was that you can be valued for your strategy and your humor, but pulling pranks hurts the people who don't know better, and as a consequence nullifies peoples ability to trust and learn from you. Its an unproductive use of your humor.

Re: Valued Posts and Posters
 

Beset, I think we need Dr. Phil up in this b!tch. Some serious healing needs to take place.

Re: Valued Posts and Posters
 

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Whatever the case may be, I am in a tough situation because I have a libertarian streak and don't like to be overly-paternalistic. It annoys me to have to lock threads and edit posts that aren't either (a) totally off-topic (b) spam. But, I've been charged with the task of keeping the poker strategy discussion to noise ratio at a good level and if I have to be more aggressive about that it would be bad for everybody.


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I have an idea, put in the FAQ to put all reading the board questions in the beginners forum where they belong.

I think you are in very real danger of removing the little poker strategy content there really is on this forum if you get too aggressive, but that is just my opinion. On the front page right now we have the following posts:

This Post
How do I read the board?
What is the PLO8 winrate?
Whining about having to fold when being freerolled
How do I play a really big flop?
Is Eurobet any good for LO8?
Is Party getting bad for PLO8?
A potentially decent post about shorthanded play
How do I play 6789s preflop?
How do I count outs in certain situations?

I only see one of these posts as being possible to generate real poker strategy discussion, and the advice in there looks a little weak tight to me.

Re: Valued Posts and Posters
 

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Beset, I think we need Dr. Phil up in this b!tch. Some serious healing needs to take place.

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I could never trust a fat man who writes dieting books. sorry.

Re: Valued Posts and Posters
 

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Whatever the case may be, I am in a tough situation because I have a libertarian streak and don't like to be overly-paternalistic. It annoys me to have to lock threads and edit posts that aren't either (a) totally off-topic (b) spam. But, I've been charged with the task of keeping the poker strategy discussion to noise ratio at a good level and if I have to be more aggressive about that it would be bad for everybody.


[/ QUOTE ]

I have an idea, put in the FAQ to put all reading the board questions in the beginners forum where they belong.

I think you are in very real danger of removing the little poker strategy content there really is on this forum if you get too aggressive, but that is just my opinion. On the front page right now we have the following posts:

This Post
How do I read the board?
What is the PLO8 winrate?
Whining about having to fold when being freerolled
How do I play a really big flop?
Is Eurobet any good for LO8?
Is Party getting bad for PLO8?
A potentially decent post about shorthanded play
How do I play 6789s preflop?
How do I count outs in certain situations?

I only see one of these posts as being possible to generate real poker strategy discussion, and the advice in there looks a little weak tight to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very good points.

I'm sure that if they were to merge all the HE forums into one forum instead of dividing it up by betting structure and limits these same problems would arise.

Ideas I have:

Divide the forum into two forums. If there's a demand I don't think it's that big of a deal to do this. One for micro/small stakes, one for mid/high stakes.

Or, have a strict policy of people labeling their beginners posts in the topic as such or clearly labeling the limit and betting structure.

Overall, people should just try to be more tolerant. I proposed the digest thing last month. Someone else suggested a play a hand with the masters deal. That kind of stuff would be good.

But, whatever. In the end, these things have a life of their own. Use it as a tool to get better at poker or don't.

Also, remember, as Ray Zee noted in his book: for some reason new poker players are attracted to Omaha/8. Probably because it seems complicated and interesting. This is just a fact and even before the Omaha/8 forum was created and all the O8 posts were in "Other Poker" there has always been a lot of noobish questions.

Re: Valued Posts and Posters
 

THIS WAS A VALUED [censored] RUG, MAN!

Re: Valued Posts and Posters
 

Looking at the front page --- I'm about to puke. I didn't come to this forum for this! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I think we need to get rid of all these [censored] threads. Move them or delete them on the spot. Im talking about the retarded ones, like how to count outs or how to figure out lows. Its a shame noone is posting interesting hands anymore.

Re: Valued Posts and Posters
 

[ QUOTE ]
Looking at the front page --- I'm about to puke. I didn't come to this forum for this! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I think we need to get rid of all these [censored] threads. Move them or delete them on the spot. Im talking about the retarded ones, like how to count outs or how to figure out lows. Its a shame noone is posting interesting hands anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

Click the notify moderator button each time you see a post that you think should be in the beginners forum or internet gambling or somewhere else and if I agree I'll take care of it.

Re: Valued Posts and Posters
 

[ QUOTE ]
Looking at the front page --- I'm about to puke. I didn't come to this forum for this! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I think we need to get rid of all these [censored] threads. Move them or delete them on the spot. Im talking about the retarded ones, like how to count outs or how to figure out lows. Its a shame noone is posting interesting hands anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

I completely disagree. How to read low boards and counting outs are exactly the type of threads newer players should be reading in this forum. Counting outs in particular is quite difficult even for intermediate players.

-g

Re: Valued Posts and Posters
 

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Click the notify moderator button each time you see a post that you think should be in the beginners forum or internet gambling or somewhere else and if I agree I'll take care of it

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, thanks Beset.


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I completely disagree. How to read low boards and counting outs are exactly the type of threads newer players should be reading in this forum. Counting outs in particular is quite difficult even for intermediate players.

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I think such info (atleast how to read a low) should be included in the Omaha/8 FAQ. This would create less hostility from people who have seen such threads over and over again.

Re: Valued Posts and Posters
 

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I think such info (atleast how to read a low) should be included in the Omaha/8 FAQ. This would create less hostility from people who have seen such threads over and over again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, wtf are you talking about? This has been in the FAQ for months:

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7) How does the Eight or Better low work in O8?

In any high/low game where eight or better is the qualifier, you must have a five-card hand with all five ranks eight or below. For example, if you are playing O8, and you hold A23K in your hand, the board still has to show three cards eight or below for your low to qualifiy (in Omaha you MUST use exactly three board cards and two of your cards). If the board only shows two cards below eight (84QKT) it does not matter that you have three low cards in your hand, you still have NO low.

An easy way for reading your low is to read from the top rank down, instead of the bottom rank up. So if you hold A23K, and the board is 456JQ, your low is: 6542A. If you read your hand as a whole number, you will easily be able to figure out who has the best low (this is applicable in any low game, not just O8). For instance, your 6542A can be turned into: 65,421 (aces always count as both high and low, so they will be assigned a ONE in determining your low). If your opponent has 23QK in his hand, his low is 65,432. Do you see that your "whole number" is lower than his? He can never beat your low with this hand and this board. Reading your low as a whole number will save you much heartache if you are used to counting your low from the bottom up and do not understand when the pot is taken away from you.

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As for this:

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Looking at the front page --- I'm about to puke. I didn't come to this forum for this!

I think we need to get rid of all these [censored] threads. Move them or delete them on the spot. Im talking about the retarded ones, like how to count outs or how to figure out lows. Its a shame noone is posting interesting hands anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you want more quality hand posts, post em. It's that simple. Lead the way chief.

As for the rest, newbies can ask dumb questions if they want. We're not the thread police. This place is here for 2+2 to make money and for any and all discussions relating to 08. It's not a private forum for you and your buddies to debate the intricacies of $2000 PL08 hands vs ZAPPUD.

Re: Valued Posts and Posters
 

[ QUOTE ]

As for this:

[ QUOTE ]
Looking at the front page --- I'm about to puke. I didn't come to this forum for this!

I think we need to get rid of all these [censored] threads. Move them or delete them on the spot. Im talking about the retarded ones, like how to count outs or how to figure out lows. Its a shame noone is posting interesting hands anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you want more quality hand posts, post em. It's that simple. Lead the way chief.

As for the rest, newbies can ask dumb questions if they want. We're not the thread police. This place is here for 2+2 to make money and for any and all discussions relating to 08. It's not a private forum for you and your buddies to debate the intricacies of $2000 PL08 hands vs ZAPPUD.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the one exception here is the low counting thing. If someone asks something that's in the FAQ I'll lock the thread and direct them to the FAQ.