Someone has a huge leak in their game. Please tell me who.
 

Umm, the converter doesn't work so i'll try to make this as clear as I can.

$5 buyin 45 entrant multi-table SnG. About 12 left. Blinds are 100/200/25. Top 7 pay.

UTG (t12555)
MP (t7440)
CO (t1595)
Button (hero) (t1180)
SB (t3315)
BB (t10350)

Hero has J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

UTG limps and its folded to us.

Our play is

1) push?
2) limp?
3) fold?

Me and a friend whom I know is a good player have drastically differing opinions. Please help one of us fix a leak.

Re: Someone has a huge leak in their game. Please tell me who.
 

We need:

1) Blind size
2) Read on opponent
3) Number of entrants
4) Prize distribution

Re: Someone has a huge leak in their game. Please tell me who.
 

Blinds...?

Re: Someone has a huge leak in their game. Please tell me who.
 

What are the blinds? lol

Re: Someone has a huge leak in their game. Please tell me who.
 

Oh [censored], i knew i forgot something.

Blinds are 100/200/25, 45 players entered.

Prize distribution is normal, it's not a satellite. Top 7 pay.

Assume no reads.

Re: Someone has a huge leak in their game. Please tell me who.
 

If you can expect to see a cheap flop, then I think it's okay to limp here. You have position, and must be willing to commit to a flop you like, and/or bet it when when checked around to you.

If you think that UTG will fold to a push, then push.

If you can be sure he'll call (and with his huge stack, I'd be careful), then definately don't push.

You have a short stack and need to start getting some chips, not squeak into the money. Play it more aggressively if you aren't getting many good spots to pick up pots, less aggressively if you've been getting lots of opportunities to pick up dead money (because you'll have a better chance later on when there isn't already a limper).

I like folding the least. But it pretty close all the way around. So no matter what you chose here, it isn't going to qualify as a "huge leak".

Re: Someone has a huge leak in their game. Please tell me who.
 

UTG at the $5 level is rarely (if ever) folding.
I limp here and go to the felt if a J,Q, or any decent draw hits.

Re: Someone has a huge leak in their game. Please tell me who.
 

Well here is my reasoning.

Limping must be bad. I'd prefer to push 73o when its folded to me next hand than limp here for 1/6 of my stack. Also, if we get raised what happens then? Do we just fold and leave that 200 on the table? Or call despite the fact we mst be behind?

Pushing to me is reasonable. I think we have about a 30% chance of getting it folded around and pick up a very nice boost to our stack. However, if we get called we're praying for a coinflip.

That leaves folding. I prefer this option for a few reasons.

1) QJs isn't really that good at all. What exactly are we beating if we push?

2) Our folding equity against UTG isn't so good. Players at low buyins tend to like to make overly loose calls when they already have money invested in the pot.

3) Our chip position is bad indeed, but we're not done for yet. We can afford to wait for a better hand than this, or at least push when we're first into the pot.

However, my friend hates folding and loves limping, which is just bizarre to me. With such a small stack, we're playing push/fold poker. Limping isn't pushing or folding.

Re: Someone has a huge leak in their game. Please tell me who.
 

Why do you like folding the least?

3. UTG isn't folding (he's getting a decent price, its a $5) and his hand is better then yours heads up. Also, if someone gets knocked out you move up in $. Pushing is not an option.

2. If the blinds are Very Passive I might limp. Generally, I am never limping for nearly 20% of my stack although this is close.

1. Most likely I'm folding, and I plan on pushing in the SB w/ a clean look.

What was your play?

Re: Someone has a huge leak in their game. Please tell me who.
 

easy push for me. you have an M of a little over 2, if you are called (which you will be) then you are off to the races. i don't mind getting my money in behind when i am this desperate (pray for live cards, i think they are).

the antes are just going to chew you up every hand if you fold and QJ isn't terrible in dire straights. if you call, then i guess you would be pushing any flop? i don't know why you would just call here? in the red zone i am in push/fold mode.

if somehow he folds (he won't) its a decent pot in comparison to your stack.

Re: Someone has a huge leak in their game. Please tell me who.
 

This wasn't me playing, and i like folding the most. I would push any 2 next hand if it was folded to me.

Re: Someone has a huge leak in their game. Please tell me who.
 

I like pushing because in a $5 you're favored over UTG's range.

Re: Someone has a huge leak in their game. Please tell me who.
 

Easy push.. you have 5 BBs!

Re: Someone has a huge leak in their game. Please tell me who.
 

Push!

Re: Someone has a huge leak in their game. Please tell me who.
 

POOOOOOSH! Your M is 2 ish

Re: Someone has a huge leak in their game. Please tell me who.
 

Push it.

Re: Someone has a huge leak in their game. Please tell me who.
 

Easy push. Your either dead now, or soon.It is a hand with possibilites and I`d prefer to get my chips in now, at least then you can act with some more force later if some other opportunity should arise and you pull it off.
I wouldnt consider this a huge leak. How often does this happen? A huge leak would be defined as a mistake that has a large frequency so you continously spew with it. I dont see this as a frequent problem, however if it is a frequent situation you arrive at, then the leak lies in what brings you into this setting and not the setting itself.

For what it is worth Stokken

Re: Someone has a huge leak in their game. Please tell me who.
 

I can't imagine doing anything but pushing here.

Re: Someone has a huge leak in their game. Please tell me who.
 

I would fold. You have 5 big blinds. While the UTG's range is enormous, you have SB and BB yet to act, and while SB is folding lots of hands, BB can afford to call a lot of hands at 1.5 to 1. UTG can then overcall. Unless BB's shown himself to be pretty tight, there might be a better spot to get your money in first, or you may want to wait for a king in the CO or CO-1.

It's close. If you could guarantee to get heads up, I think you take a shot, but UTG's presence and stack size indicate he probably isn't folding a lot of hands here. You want to give yourself the best chance to double up.

Re: Someone has a huge leak in their game. Please tell me who.
 

The limp might could mean alot of things. AA-KK, small pp suited connectors or facecards, a-x

There is a large probability that BB folds unless he is a donk or holds a premium PP. I dont see him to eager to tangle the only other big stack unless so. Well if he has one so be it, consider what wou would do if it was folded to you? If I had a bigger stack then maybe I pass this one.
It is offcourse read dependent, but as stated assume no reads, I will push to a limper here. With reads I might push any two into a limper if my image could allow it and my stack was abit more frightening.

With the blinds like this and shorthanded your effective life is less the 3 rounds, and after blinds doubling up means jack. So most likely you will have to play any two out of the blind I rather take this hand

Re: Someone has a huge leak in their game. Please tell me who.
 

Push> Fold> (distant third) Call.


For all the reasons people have mention.

Re: Someone has a huge leak in their game. Please tell me who.
 

I think BB's range is wider than a premium pair. He's getting 1.5 to 1 on the call with a possible overcall, that doesn't push unless HE has a premium pair. He has a big stack. The buy-in level is low (although I don't believe this automatically denotes bad play.)

Re: Someone has a huge leak in their game. Please tell me who.
 

Yes, but if we push that opens the betting again. BB will have to call 10% of his stack, unless he comes over the top, and be uncertain as to what Utg will do. Without a premium hand that would be foolish?

Re: Someone has a huge leak in their game. Please tell me who.
 

I was unclear.

I think the big stacks stymie each other in this hand. UTG can't reasonably push anything but a huge pair behind a BB call, so the BB can call safely most of the time.

It's a small point, because I think you're right- a majority of the time, Hero is HU against the UTG limper.

Re: Someone has a huge leak in their game. Please tell me who.
 

I'm pretty sure that this is an easy push with way worse hands than this. You have decent FE, and the vast majority of the time that you get called, you're HU getting like 1.5:1.

I'm pushing 89s here, and if I've seen UTG limp/fold and I have a tight image, I push 23o here.

Re: Someone has a huge leak in their game. Please tell me who.
 

I was the original person the argument was with - although the hand belonged to someone else we were sweating.

I limp because:

Although 200 out of 1180 is a significant chunk of our stack, QJ suited is a strong hand and justifies the investment.

QJ suited is a very flop-dependent hand that we will either fold or push with on the flop.

I expect a push to be called and I expect to be behind. We all know that a hand like QJs has a decent chance of cracking a big hand, but why not see a flop and get a huge insight into determining whether this is one of those occasions.

Unlike a made hand I don't mind the blinds limping in as they may provide someone to pay me off if I do hit.

I have position on everyone on the flop.

A raise from the blinds is less likely as they'd be raising the UTG limper as well. There's no specific reason to assume he has a monster but it's a possibility. If raised allin pre-flop then I fold, yes.

With all these favourable factors, and a flop-sensitive hand, I don't have a problem with investing 200 from my small 1200 stack.

Re: Someone has a huge leak in their game. Please tell me who.
 

I see this as a situation where limping is horribly wrong. By limping you not only commit ~20% of your stack to the pot but you also stand the chance of losing fold equity against the other shorter stacks at the table, especially the CO. This means that on the next hand that you pickup your push is that much easier to call. Not only that, but now your double up costs you 200 chips this time, 400 next time, and so on and so forth. Losing 200 chips here as the short stack with the blinds/antes this high is highly undesirable.

I push here. Next hand the SB and BB are both the big stacks. They're more likely to call the next hand than this one. Players in a $5 game like to chase after their money already invested in the pot. I prefer heros chances with this hand over a hand like 74o. Hero's cards are most likely live and he has a rather good suited connector here. SB isn't likely to call here. That only leaves the BB and UTG and I don't think that UTG has a very strong hand. I push and I don't think it's close.