gretzky takes on posada
 

i was at lunch today with a close friend and we had an interesting conversation about hockey and baseball goalies/catchers.

lets say you were in a hockey rink (all ice) but there was 1-2 foot circle of dirt where the goalie stands, this is where the catcher will be spiked up ready to take slapshots from the NHL's best.

he gets the same protection and equipment as a hockey goalie and 30 minutes of practice before Gretzky starts firing away.

now the catcher is standing in the dirt b/c it wouldn't be fair if he were to be forced to skate and we figured that a 1-2 foot circle of dirt would not affect a slapshot (please correct if wrong).

Gretzky or whatever hockey great you want taking the swings gets 20 shots at the goal, how many does he make from 20-25 feet away against a Major League catcher? he cannot take the goalie/catcher one on one, these are slapshots.

Discuss.

FWIW, my close friend is a MLB starting pitcher and from the north and was familiar with hockey so was able to see it from both sides wheras i am somewhat of a newb when it comes to hockey and pretty much think they are un-fuckingbelievable [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].

Re: gretzky takes on posada
 

Or how about if it was against a good defensive catcher?

Re: gretzky takes on posada
 

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Or how about if it was against a good defensive catcher?

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i never picked the shooter or the goalie. the title was just that, a title.

some of the discussion lies within your thoughtless reply though.

Re: gretzky takes on posada
 

In the NHL, goals are rarely scored when the goalie has a clear view of the shot and doesn't have to move. If the goalie is squared to the shooter, can come out to cut off the angle and has a clear view, he almost always makes the save. The shot has to be an absolute blast in a perfect spot to score. Most goals are scored on tip-ins, deflections and shots where the goalie has to move and isn't squared and/or screened.

The catcher is going to have more or less equal hand eye coordination to the goalie, and with a 30 minute lesson on positioning he won't have that much of a problem.

So very few goals.

Edit: FWIW I've played both positions and keeper in soccer.

Re: gretzky takes on posada
 

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and with a 30 minute lesson on positioning he won't have that much of a problem.


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he isn't getting a lesson on positioning, he is just having a guy take a shots at him for awhile until time is up and the NHL guy steps on the ice.

Re: gretzky takes on posada
 

Ok that changes things a bit.

As I think about this more, the 20-25' thing is getting me. That's really close considering what the catcher is used to.

I think a soccer keeper would do better because they probably have a better understanding of positioning/angles than the catcher. But with that said, I'm assuming the catcher can save some of them, and a lot will just hit him in the chest or miss the net anyway.

Now, if the NHLer is taking penalties? He's going to pwn the catcher.

Re: gretzky takes on posada
 

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As I think about this more, the 20-25' thing is getting me. That's really close considering what the catcher is used to.


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you bring up some good points and ones that we discussed.

part of the reason we made it so close was for the reason you mentioned, "most goals in hockey aren't scored from slapshots," but then again this is a new look seeing a hockey puck coming at you rather than a baseball. new shape new everything.

a catcher can handle many tough situations as pitchers manipulate baseballs to move and to move in directions a hockey puck simply cannot. but the catcher knows its going to be a curveball/slider/splitter etc right? so that way different, well the ball still goes in the dirt and changes direction and sometimes backs up and doesn't do what its supposed to.

then the kicker is, cathers hit. and they hit a baseball in which they don't necessarily know to the fullest what its going to do (they have an idea). so their hand eye coordination is going to be as good as a hockey goalie and their reflex's will be as sharp and i don't care if its posada or pudge in there.

on the other hand, i have seen those sharp shooting contests in the NHL all-star game and from 20-25 feet away some of the best look pretty deadly and those hockey pucks are scootin' (especially from the distance mentioned).

Re: gretzky takes on posada
 

I've never played hockey, but I've got to think that a kick-save would be a lot tougher standing on dirt, than on ice.

I tell my sniper to aim low. The catcher won't have time to drop to his knees and "block" it, like a pitch in the dirt.

Re: gretzky takes on posada
 

How many would he make?

All of them.

Re: gretzky takes on posada
 

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How many would he make?

All of them.

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care to elaborate?

Re: gretzky takes on posada
 

Poster above who talked about lateral movement was on the money I think. Side to side movement and skate saves are a big part of goaltending, so putting a catcher with feet in the dirt would be a big disadvantage. Shots at close range with a relatively immobile catcher would give the hockey player a big advantage.

I think this is one of those useless comparisons, in that both positions are difficult, both require good hand eye coordination, but the sports are too different. I never played either one at any sort of high level, but did some catching and goaltending at the low level kid stuff I did play. Different beasts IMO. Getting hit with a puck or ball hurts either way tho.

Re: gretzky takes on posada
 

the above poster did hit the nail on the head for sure.

"all of them" is not the correct answer though. the shooter would have to be perfect and the goalie would have to not block one, that won't happen.

EDIT: above poster=youtalkfunny

Re: gretzky takes on posada
 

I think the shooter would score a heavy majority, just like I think a major league pitcher could throw the ball into a net guarded by a catcher if he was only 25 feet away.

Re: gretzky takes on posada
 

can I get Al Macinnis to skate up from the blue line and slap one from 20 feet?
Mac scores 19. Blast the first shot at Posada's head. The next 19 go in because Posada's in an ambulance on the way to the hospital.

Re: gretzky takes on posada
 

can i ask why he is going to the hospital if NHL goalie's never get hurt (bad enough to warrant going to the hospital b/c of taking a shot to the head)?

they get the same protective equipment.

Re: gretzky takes on posada
 

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can i ask why he is going to the hospital if NHL goalie's never get hurt (bad enough to warrant going to the hospital b/c of taking a shot to the head)?

they get the same protective equipment.

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Because most nhl goalies are smart enough to duck if Al got a 20ft wind up slap shot.
The equipment isn't designed to protect from that shot. It just doesn't happen during regular play.
A 100+ mph slapshot to the head would probably knock him out cold and give him a concussion.

Goalies have been knocked out of games by slapshots. Al broke one goalies rib with a shot. He also shot a puck through the webbing of a glove, breaking the goalies hand.

Re: gretzky takes on posada
 

ouch [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img].

so do we need to either back him up or not have al take the shot?

Re: gretzky takes on posada
 

I would suggest that the shot come from a standstill. Also, that the shooter uses a regulation stick.

I think the goalies best chance is to start in a butterfly, giving the top of the net. 5-10 of the high shots might either be saved or shot high/wide.

Re: gretzky takes on posada
 

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I think the goalies best chance is to start in a butterfly, giving the top of the net. 5-10 of the high shots might either be saved or shot high/wide.

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This is easily his best option.

The catcher is going to have trouble making athletic kick saves on low shots, because he is not used to doing that. He will, however, be able to glove some high shots. If he comes out to cut off the angle and takes away the bottom of the net with a butterfly, the shooter is going to have a tough time finding the top corner.

Re: gretzky takes on posada
 

A hockey goalie is more about reaction time where a catcher is more about technique of blocking baseballs. I would put the best defensive catcher well below average of all hockey goalies.

Re: gretzky takes on posada
 

You could increase scoring by shooting high to the blocker side. It will take the goalie more than 30 minutes of practice to break his instinct to try to reach over with his glove hand instead of bringing up his blocker.

Re: gretzky takes on posada
 

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A hockey goalie is more about reaction time where a catcher is more about technique of blocking baseballs.

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this is why i mentioned hitting in a previous post.

a 95 mph fastball takes a half of a second to reach the plate...on average the hitter needs to actually recognize the pitch (fastball/breaking ball etc), location (ball/strike) then decide if he is going to swing or not within .01-.02 seconds to give him time to start the mechanics of his swing. so if you are telling me that his reaction time will not be good then i am going to have to disagree b/c he will have unbelievable hand eye coordination and reflexes.

all in all a batter on average has 4/10ths of a second to recognize, make up his mind, and swing at a baseball.