Jmans Always Draw (5/10 6max)
 

No reads here. Firstly, is my flop call okay?

After my turn bet, he thought for a long time before raising.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Button ($1218.12)
SB ($1595.50)
Hero ($1112.75)
UTG ($1419.75)
MP ($1000)
CO ($114)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $5. MP posts a blind of $10.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP (poster) checks, CO calls $10, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB (poster) completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($40) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $30</font>, Hero calls $30, MP folds, CO folds.

Turn: ($100) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $70</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $150</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $350</font>

Re: Jmans Always Draw
 

looks good.

Re: Jmans Always Draw
 

flop call is good b/c it's nut draw, and on top of that you have a gutshot, raising works too, but calling is fine

Re: Jmans Always Draw (5/10 6max)
 

you aren't thinking about folding here right?

Re: Jmans Always Draw (5/10 6max)
 

[ QUOTE ]
you aren't thinking about folding here right?

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean on the flop? Then yes, I thought about it. If you mean the turn, I may be new at ring games, but in a tournament you should almost never fold the nuts.

Re: Jmans Always Draw (5/10 6max)
 

Im pretty sure he was asking you if you were thinking about folding on the flop as a option since you asked "is my flop call okay?"

Im guessing your wondering if you should call or raise.

I like it either way on flop, call seems easy with position and your image, and your turn reraise gets the job done to push the river as a pot bet given your stack size, but I usually raise a little more with that action.

Re: Jmans Always Draw (5/10 6max)
 

I like the flop raise. I think with the line he took (lead out on flop, check-raise the turn) he most likley has a big hand that will come along with you. Maybe a smaller turned flush or QTo.

Re: Jmans Always Draw (5/10 6max)
 

You played this hand great. This guy is drawing dead. No reason to raise more on turn.

Re: Jmans Always Draw (5/10 6max)
 

He is not drawing dead at all.

Re: Jmans Always Draw (5/10 6max)
 

no way he has a set or two pair

Re: Jmans Always Draw (5/10 6max)
 

Push on the turn after c-r looks better.

Re: Jmans Always Draw (5/10 6max)
 

Hi Jman,

[ QUOTE ]
You mean on the flop? Then yes, I thought about [folding]

[/ QUOTE ]

You should never consider folding here for 30. You have 12 outs to the nuts. Calling is fine, though. I like your play in the rest of the hand.

Re: Jmans Always Draw (5/10 6max)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Jman,

[ QUOTE ]
You mean on the flop? Then yes, I thought about [folding]

[/ QUOTE ]

You should never consider folding here for 30. You have 12 outs to the nuts. Calling is fine, though. I like your play in the rest of the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks. I was worried about getting raised out behind me, but I guess the implied odds are juicy enough to make up for that chance.

Re: Jmans Always Draw
 

You flopped way too good for that hand to fold on that flop bet.

Re: Jmans Always Draw
 

Flop can be played either way.

Turn - I don't like the nearly min-raise make it $400 or 500 for reasons buttons mentioned.

Re: Jmans Always Draw
 

[ QUOTE ]
Flop can be played either way.

Turn - I don't like the nearly min-raise make it $400 or 500 for reasons buttons mentioned.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah but doesn't a 3-bet scream flush? true villain might have one too, but wouldn't it be better to call then 2/3 value bet the river?

Re: Jmans Always Draw
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Flop can be played either way.

Turn - I don't like the nearly min-raise make it $400 or 500 for reasons buttons mentioned.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah but doesn't a 3-bet scream flush? true villain might have one too, but wouldn't it be better to call then 2/3 value bet the river?

[/ QUOTE ]
lotta cards you don't wanna see on river...4th club/board pairing + 3 betting turn gives you chance to stack lower flush

Re: Jmans Always Draw
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Flop can be played either way.

Turn - I don't like the nearly min-raise make it $400 or 500 for reasons buttons mentioned.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah but doesn't a 3-bet scream flush? true villain might have one too, but wouldn't it be better to call then 2/3 value bet the river?

[/ QUOTE ]
lotta cards you don't wanna see on river...4th club/board pairing + 3 betting turn gives you chance to stack lower flush

[/ QUOTE ]

the 4th flush card doesn't mean anything except it will kill your action unless he has J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] which 2/3 pot bet will make a call. i don't think the board pairing on the river will affect anything because i don't see SB not raising preflop holding AA/KK/JJ. maybe limps with 99/AJ/KJ, but i don't see a min raise coming from SB on just 2 pair on a flush board. although, maybe he would, but that seems real weak.

Re: Jmans Always Draw
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Flop can be played either way.

Turn - I don't like the nearly min-raise make it $400 or 500 for reasons buttons mentioned.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah but doesn't a 3-bet scream flush? true villain might have one too, but wouldn't it be better to call then 2/3 value bet the river?

[/ QUOTE ]
lotta cards you don't wanna see on river...4th club/board pairing + 3 betting turn gives you chance to stack lower flush

[/ QUOTE ]

you know what...i'm sure you're right now. it's probably leaving money on the table that a lot of cards could fall that would kill your action.

Re: Jmans Always Draw (5/10 6max)
 

I would call the turn raise here as he is likely drawing dead and will continue firing on the river, whereas your reraise announces your hand.

Re: Jmans Always Draw
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Flop can be played either way.

Turn - I don't like the nearly min-raise make it $400 or 500 for reasons buttons mentioned.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah but doesn't a 3-bet scream flush? true villain might have one too, but wouldn't it be better to call then 2/3 value bet the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

NL is a game of stacking your opponent. Only chance to stack here is if opponent has smaller flush, and only way to stack that is to raise turn. If opponent does not have flush, hero's not getting much more anyway, so the way to play this is to maximize value if opponent happens to have the flush.

A similar situation would be an AAK42 board where hero has a boat. Betting small might get value from a king, but what hero really wants is to stack an ace, so constant raising and betting big is the way to go.

Jumpman, you played this hand fine.

Re: Jmans Always Draw
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Flop can be played either way.

Turn - I don't like the nearly min-raise make it $400 or 500 for reasons buttons mentioned.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah but doesn't a 3-bet scream flush? true villain might have one too, but wouldn't it be better to call then 2/3 value bet the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

NL is a game of stacking your opponent. Only chance to stack here is if opponent has smaller flush, and only way to stack that is to raise turn. If opponent does not have flush, hero's not getting much more anyway, so the way to play this is to maximize value if opponent happens to have the flush.

A similar situation would be an AAK42 board where hero has a boat. Betting small might get value from a king, but what hero really wants is to stack an ace, so constant raising and betting big is the way to go.

Jumpman, you played this hand fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Id prefer a turn call.

If the guy has a smaller flush, why would he be minraising here? It seems more likely that he either A) has air and is looking to pick up the pot on the river, or B) has something made like KJ and is asking you to reraise him with a better hand so he can get away. I'd prefer to call the turn planning to push the river over a decent lead (or pot it if he checks).

I completely understand the need to stack people with big hands, but not only do you have a good chance to stack a smaller flush anyway by call/pushing (I mean he leads the river a huge chunk of the time, and almost always for enough for you to get all in and him to not get away), but also you let garbage hands make a ballsy pot-sized river lead or sneak some value from worse made hands. I just don't see much value to be lost here by calling.

Everett

Re: Jmans Always Draw
 

Who cares if you announces your hand?

Even tho players sees the obvious they have a small voice in there heads that says, "ehh he bluffs or my two pair is the best hand, and the pot is so big, i can't fold now".
Don't overestimate your opponents to think they are thinking like you do.. And if they are, then you have to find another table.

And also like the previous people have said.. There are a tons off cards that will kill your action or even kill your hand if he have two pairs/set of nines. Any club, Any A,K,Q,J,10,9. Thats around 24-26 cards!! Half the deck!

Well played hand Jman!

EDIT:
But I should have raised on the flop.. Many times you get the pot for free. That is good. Many times you will get a free card on the turn. That is also good. Many times you will hit your draw and then the pot is already big so you can bet big and win big. That is good. The only bad thing about semi bluffing is if he re-raise you on the flop it could be too expensive to draw and you have to fold your hand. That is bad. The option is yours! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] But i like to gamble it up [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Jmans Always Draw (5/10 6max)
 

I'd raise the flop~


Tex

Results
 

He minreraised the turn, I pushed. He called with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Money was getting in almost no matter what.

Re: Results
 

cool...why did you post this hand again?