Live Long Enough to Live Forever (x-post)
 

Live Long Enough to Live Forever

This is the first blog I've written with no poker content that I think can have a profound impact on some of the readers. I really hope some of you will take the suggestion and read the book in question.

Anyway, I'd love comments from people that think I'm crazy, or people that have read the book already.
-ZJ

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever (x-post)
 

Zee,

Thank you for posting on this book. The vast majority of Americans doe exactly what they are not told, but SOLD.

Accordingly most Americans "die on time".

You know that Medicare and SocialSecurity provide strong incentives for govt and media to /suppress/slow the velocity of/discredit/ life-extending knowledge of nutrition and health-extending habits.

Imagine every baby boomer living to 95. Social Security and Medicare balances will be hugely affected by that.

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever (x-post)
 

I've read the book already, and I am partially following his recomendations.

I still eat lots of high-gl carbs like rice and spaghetti (but far less than before)

I eat MUCH more salads and green foods.

I'm not doing the "agressive suplementation" (i take no pills whatsoever) the book recomends (plan on taking some in the future)


I can say that my heath has improved a lot, and also that I believe science will be able to eventualy grant us imortality (from old age.. there will always be accidental-type deaths we will die from)

Although I think maybe his forecast was a bit to soon (he says in 20 years we will see some stuff showing up), I think it's more like 60 years. Good thing we are young and will live to see the day (the title of the book is talking to people who are currently 45yrs++) and I think maybe mr. Kurtzweil knew this when writing, but exagerated his claims to give old people hope (his core customer, cause young people usually dont care much about aging, death, etc)

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever (x-post)
 

People who totally discredit the book just can't understand what exponential progress in health care/science can mean.

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever (x-post)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Although I think maybe his forecast was a bit to soon (he says in 20 years we will see some stuff showing up), I think it's more like 60 years. Good thing we are young and will live to see the day (the title of the book is talking to people who are currently 45yrs++) and I think maybe mr. Kurtzweil knew this when writing, but exagerated his claims to give old people hope (his core customer, cause young people usually dont care much about aging, death, etc)

[/ QUOTE ]

1) Don't forget Kurzweil is pushing 60 himself
2) I think you underestimate the man if you think he would lie throughout multiple books to sell a few more copies/products. His predictions in the past have been spot on so far (like the whole Deep Blue thing for example).

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever (x-post)
 

Yeah maybe he IS right, I think probably not, but I don't dismiss the probability that he's accurate. I think the probability that I live to see the day (I'm 21 now with perfect health, and plan on living to at least 100 without bridge 2 or 3 developments) is so much greater.

I mean, no sane person can deny that in 80 years from now, there won't be a technique that will allow people to live to 120, and that in 100 years from now, another invention will allow to crack the 150 barrier and so on...

What is certain is that most life enhancing procedures will cost a hefty sum, so good thing we are at the top 1%, stockpiling wealth through poker.

btw, how much would you pay for some blood purifying nanobots? [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever (x-post)
 

[ QUOTE ]
btw, how much would you pay for some blood purifying nanobots?

[/ QUOTE ]

More money than I currently have. Seems like something worth going into debt over, amiright?

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever (x-post)
 

Kurzweil has some interesting views on the future. If you haven't already, read his book "The Age of Spiritual Machines."

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever (x-post)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Kurzweil has some interesting views on the future. If you haven't already, read his book "The Age of Spiritual Machines."

[/ QUOTE ]

I have. I actually found Kurzweil through the band Our Lady Peace. They had an album called Spiritual Machines which was partially based on his book and even had him speaking over about 5 of the tracks.

That book completely changed my views on the future. I think the man is an absolute genius.

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever (x-post)
 

I've met him. he was a keynote speaker at one of my compny's conferences about 5 years ago.

However, barring some radical breakthrough in the next 20 years or so, I probably won't be around to take part in the debate over cybernetically enhanced humans.

We are Borg. Resistance is futile, (sorry, couldn't resist [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] )

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever (x-post)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
btw, how much would you pay for some blood purifying nanobots?

[/ QUOTE ]

More money than I currently have. Seems like something worth going into debt over, amiright?

[/ QUOTE ]

What's the point of living forever if you're going to be poor and desperate?

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever (x-post)
 

I don't know what number 2 goal in life is, I do know that
number 1 goal is "don't die".

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever (x-post)
 

"We shouldn't envy the gods. The gods envy us" - Brad Pitt(Achilles) [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Our mortality is what makes us value life, its whats makes our time precious. I don't think its that hard to see, but i have no problem going into detail on this concept later on (heading to the pub in 5 mins treasure life some more)

My only bigger fear than fearing death would be not to fear death i guess. Besides that, imo fear is to be confronted, to be embraced; not to be lived by(in this particular case an utopia, but the quest in itself is what creates the field of tension that defines all that makes life interesting). Fear of death being the grand mothership of all fears, ultimately confronting it probably will in its own way be one of the absolute highlights of my life. Never will one be thrown back more to ones absolute core of being. These are the moments im willing to live for, these are the moments im willing to die for (sorry, im getting all zen on your a.sses, i quit now mmkayy [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] )

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever (x-post)
 

I don't mind dying, 10,000 years from now...
but 100 is so little time, don't you agree?

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever (x-post)
 

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Our mortality is what makes us value life, its whats makes our time precious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oddly enough, a little over a decade ago, Ray Kurzweil wrote in his book The Age of Spiritual Machines, "Take death for example. A great deal of our effort goes into avoiding it. We make extraordinary efforts to delay it and often consider it's intrusion a tragic event, yet we'd find it hard to live without it. Death gives meaning to our lives. It gives importance and value to time. Time would become meaningless if there were too much of it."

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever (x-post)
 

Er I don't need death to mean anything. I'll live for 100,000 years and you will never find me wishing for death(assuming everything remains cool and I'm not some kind of depressed ancient glob of human).

I'd have plenty of time to imbue meaning into my life outside of the ending of it.

I haven't read those books, Kurzweil wrote a cool essay for this book on the philosophy of the Matrix. I think the book was called "Taking the Red Pill". If I remember right he explains how we will become robots or the robots will compete for resources with us and they will win and displace us.

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever (x-post)
 

I think we should make sure Earth makes it that far before we worry about ourselves. Just my $0,02

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever (x-post)
 

What about the probability of you dying minutes before you receive the newly invented life extension program?

Worst. Beat. Ever.

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever (x-post)
 

The Earth will be here for another 5 billion years or so regardless of our actions. It may not be particularly hospitable for mammalian life, but it's not going anywhere.

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever (x-post)
 

Enjoyed your blog. I just finished another Ray Kurzweil book titled "The Singularity is Near". I found it to be fascinating, although I don't know if I am convinced that we are evolving/progressing at an exponential, rather than linear rate. Kurzweil devotes a good portion of his book explaining why he believes that we are in fact on an exponential curve. I generally felt that there were too many supporting points that are open to interpretation. I think that an exponential rate is a possibility, but not a probable one. Anyone else have any insight or remarks on Kurzweil's exponential theory?

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever (x-post)
 

I just started reading the Singlurity is Near last night, and haven't even finished the first chapter yet, but I have read Kurzweils Age of Siritual Machines.

To me it's just pretty obvious. It seems like people disagreeing would be in the minorty. All these numbers are guesses off the top of my head, but even if they are way off, my point still stands:
100k BC: Wheel
40k BC: Fire
5k BC: Metal
400 BC: a couple of things that might count as real inventions by the chinese
2005 AD: sweet sassy molasses!

What's your argument against this?

I suppose you could argue that the science of the universe allows for some limitations that we have almost reached, but I think that theory would have been much more valid 100 years ago. If we can perfect only the sciences we are trying today w/ minor success, we should still be able to reach the singularity.

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever (x-post)
 

Is 5000 years literal?? Or is it an obvious exagerration?? I didnt really get that.

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever (x-post)
 

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Is 5000 years literal?? Or is it an obvious exagerration?? I didnt really get that.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is Abrey De Gray's literal prediction. The authors of the book state that theoretically that is possible, but the real numbers they give are much smaller. I have a feeling Ray Kurzweil doesn't want to give out numbers because The Singularity will result in changing the world beyond recognition.

The Singularity it basically the point in the near future at which humans and computers will be indistinguishable for each other. Right now we have prostethic arms, cochlear implans. Think about what will happen when technology along those lines supplements the brain instead. Some crazy [censored] is gonna happen.

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever (x-post)
 

A while ago I wrote a review of Spiritual Machines for some website: warning, it's negative.

It seems to me that Kurzweil's prediction of the future is too detailed, too specific, and too confident.

He's like, here's how it's going to go down: boom boom boom. Apparently, it's going to be unimaginable, but he's able to describe with certainty that it will have X, Y, and Z?

It's interesting stuff, but I remain skeptical.

/mc

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever (x-post)
 

I want to make clear that I have moderately flamed the OP in the past so that people here know my general attitude. But he did ask for views of people who think he's crazy. These type of books are often not much more than mental masturbation for those who like science fiction and wonderful predictions. There's a monster publishing industry in health fad guides and futuristic prediction stuff like this. Same with all those "motivational" books by guys like that Robbins. And even though I am a christian, I also lump all the christian "health and wealth and prosperity" writings in the same category. And as far as that guy being right on some predictions, well Jeanne Dixon's horoscope is going to be right a certain percentage of the time simply because she puts so many vague predictions out there.

There are plenty of legitimate health books to read, and if you want to get a glimpse of the future of science then regularly reading Discover, Scientific American and even Popular Science will provide that. But believing someone who says people in the future will live for thousands of years is just allowing someone to blow smoke up your ass. It is a lot more profitable to try to learn what might come about in scientific inovation in your lifetime and not some far off time when you will have been long buried.

But if you do like this kind of stuff, then you are a prime candidate for Scientology. Pay thousands to learn about Xenu and removing the thetans inhabiting your body. It's all science fiction. Discussing these types of books seriously is akin to having a book club discussion of Harlequin romances.

Daydream on.

Re: Live Long Enough to Live Forever (x-post)
 

I don't know if you are aware of this, but there have been numerous cases of exponential growth(or faster for instance 1/(t-t0)e^t) that level off abruptly. To extrapolate far when the slope is steep has usually been a blunder. If you fit current data trends, the World GNP will be infinite around 2025 and energy consumption will be also. My point is that some effects emerge rapidly to destroy and level off these apparent exponential growth curves. This can be seen throughout history, but the onset of other affects has often been hard to predict before hand. When Moore's law ends, I predict we will have the same speed computers for 10 years (conservative estimate).