65s... this should be an easy question
 

Attempting to learn full after playing tons of short. A friend and I debated, raise this flop or just call? Villian is a 9.09/7.4/1.57 over 154 hands.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $2.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero (poster) calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero...</font>

Re: 65s... this should be an easy question
 

RAISE. your sample isn't huge, a 7.4 pfr isn't that mousy so his range does include over cards, his aggresion seems low so there is a chance he doesn't even three bet with an overpair, and last but not least you have a ton of equity in this pot.

Re: 65s... this should be an easy question
 

I would raise, unless I didn't think Villain would auto-bet overcards versus three blinds.

If you knew you were drawing versus MP2, I think you'd be better off calling. But I think there's a decent chance he's drawing (and not very well) against you. And if I'm ahead of MP2, I'd prefer, if possible, to protect my vulnerable made hand, in this not-so-small pot.

Re: 65s... this should be an easy question
 

I swear that my dog just said "RAISE" a second ago (it was savage). Well actually he isn't my dog, but we can just pretend so.

Brad

Re: 65s... this should be an easy question
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would raise, unless I didn't think Villain would auto-bet overcards versus three blinds.

If you knew you were drawing versus MP2, I think you'd be better off calling. But I think there's a decent chance he's drawing (and not very well) against you. And if I'm ahead of MP2, I'd prefer, if possible, to protect my vulnerable made hand, in this not-so-small pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

even if i knew MP2 had an overpair i'm raising this flop

Re: 65s... this should be an easy question
 

Jesus I don't understand how some people can have vpips of &lt;10.

Raise the flop.

Re: 65s... this should be an easy question
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would raise, unless I didn't think Villain would auto-bet overcards versus three blinds.

If you knew you were drawing versus MP2, I think you'd be better off calling. But I think there's a decent chance he's drawing (and not very well) against you. And if I'm ahead of MP2, I'd prefer, if possible, to protect my vulnerable made hand, in this not-so-small pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

even if i knew MP2 had an overpair i'm raising this flop

[/ QUOTE ]

We're about a coin-flip versus an overpair, which is fine, but I'm thinking we'd rather play multiway if we're currently drawing.

Granted, we will turn two pair sometimes and then lose when someone else hits a gutshot or better two pair on the river, and we'll turn a flush and lose to a bigger flush on the river sometimes too. But it still seems to me like if we're drawing, keeping others in, if possible, is to our advantage.

But maybe there's something I'm missing.

In any event, I think we'll be ahead a decent amount of the time, and I like raising here.

Re: 65s... this should be an easy question
 

Call. You want this pot to go multiway and hope that other people are calling for overcards or a straight draw and that your flush hits.
Raising would isolate you and MP2 and considering is &lt;10 VP$IP I think there is a reasonable chance that he has a high PP here.

- Just another opinion...

Re: 65s... this should be an easy question
 

[ QUOTE ]
Jesus I don't understand how some people can have vpips of &lt;10.


Raise the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
Im sure his vpip is really higher. This sample is only over 150 hands.

Re: 65s... this should be an easy question
 

Raise the flop!

Re: 65s... this should be an easy question
 

I think raise to get this HU. We win more than 50% of the time. Overcalls would improve the value of our flushdraw, but leaves more outs against us possibly having the best hand right now.

Re: 65s... this should be an easy question
 

I think you need to raise here. In the worst situation, you are about a coinflip with the preflop raiser, but if everyone behind you folds, they are leaving a bunch of dead money in the pot. If you get called by two or three players, you certainly aren't unhappy with that either.

In the best situation, maybe one of the blinds has a bad nine, or pocket sevens, and your raise convinces them to fold, and you get to play the hand headsup against the preflop raiser who has just overcards and you have a monstrous equity edge.

You might have the best hand, you most likely have the best draw, you certainly have the best position, why not raise, and see what happens from here? This is a nice pot already, and you certainly want to give yourself the best chance of winning the hand either now, or on the turn without further improvement.

If it is headsup on the turn, and it is checked to me, I bet, but if I am called there, I check behind on the river.

Finally, this is your first hand, most players are going to give you a little more credit for having a good hand when you give this much action, and it might be easier for you to win this hand by playing aggressively. But, if you get called down, this might set you up for having a LAGgy image for a while, because some players might not remember that you were blinded in, and others might recognize how powerful a flop you got here.

Re: 65s... this should be an easy question
 

raise, you have value if called and if your hand happens to be best you want to knock people out

if i didnt have the pair id probably call so that i dont knock out the blinds

Re: 65s... this should be an easy question
 

so brad, i have a question for you, suppose you have 65s and posted in the CO just like in this hand and a player with the stats of the PFR raises, is this a 3-bet or fold situation for you?

Re: 65s... this should be an easy question
 

[ QUOTE ]
so brad, i have a question for you, suppose you have 65s and posted in the CO just like in this hand and a player with the stats of the PFR raises, is this a 3-bet or fold situation for you?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm kind of curious about this as well. Based on the stats I had on the blinds, I was fairly sure at least one of them was going to come along for the ride if I called, and so I felt I was going to get at least 1 to 5 to call here. I can see no reason to 3 bet with that hand against someone with that low of a VP$IP though, even when I have position.