40-80 QJo bb
 

i still dont think 40 is high stakes but whatever.

good live game i have QJo in the bb. a donk limps utg, sb who is uberdonked calls, i check.

the flop is AJ9. there's a long pause as they stare at the flop. sb checks, i bet, they both call.

the turn is an 8. sb bets, i call, utg calls.

the river is a 2. sb checks, i check with the intention of calling and even overcalling.

comments?

Re: 40-80 QJo bb
 

I think you should bet because of utg. When he calls a lot of th etime with a worse hand it makes up for the occaisonal time sb either has us beat or checkraises us.

Re: 40-80 QJo bb
 

Did you think the uber donk was donking a T on the turn? I thought it curious that you didn't raise the turn. It sounds like you don't think the donk behind you has an Ace, and it also sounds like he plays bad enough to make a bad call for 2 bets just as often as he will for 1 bet.

Against this field I think I bet the river for value, yeah i'll get called by an ace, but sounds like you'll get called by any pair here.

lf

Re: 40-80 QJo bb
 

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i still dont think 40 is high stakes but whatever.


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no1 is going to mind if u post 40 in the mid forum, seems fine.

Re: 40-80 QJo bb
 

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i still dont think 40 is high stakes but whatever.

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plenty high. welcome to the forum [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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good live game i have QJo in the bb. a donk limps utg, sb who is uberdonked calls, i check.

the flop is AJ9. there's a long pause as they stare at the flop. sb checks, i bet, they both call.

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so far so good. i can't see checking 2nd pair 2nd best kicker w/ two donks who very likely raise aces preflop.

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the turn is an 8. sb bets, i call, utg calls.

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id consider a raise on this turn. could be uberdonk picked up a draw w/ a T + his pair (highly unlikely to be an ace) or maybe two pair. getting 3 bet would suck but what does the donk behind you have? looks like a 9 could be out there or another jack that maybe hit two pair. raising allows you to take a free showdown or value bet the river vs. the donkey small blind and gives you position on that all important street.

you dont give the other donk an opportunity to make a bad turn call but getting 5:1 if you call then he's not going to make huge mistakes either way. but some of the mistakes he COULD make if you call and then call river may be big enough to warrant a call...it depends on how aggressive thses donks are. do you win enough if you raise and call a 3 bet and a river bet (would he do this w/ T+pair?)?

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the river is a 2. sb checks, i check with the intention of calling and even overcalling.

comments?

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turn and river i may play exacly opposite. id probably raise the turn and bet the river when checked to. as you played it, you definately have to call 1 and fold for 2 on the river. but vs. two donks i think there is enough value here to bet and be called by worse jacks or 8s or 9s that itsprobably worth a bet.

Barron

Re: 40-80 QJo bb
 

Are you checking to induce a bet from a missed draw or because you are genuinely worried that you may not have the best hand? I think their most likely hands are worse than yours (pair + straight draw or even just a 10) and they may just call a bet from you with a 9 or a worse jack. I really don't get checking and calling here but in LA the idiots are much different than the kind I play against.

Re: 40-80 QJo bb
 

"Are you checking to induce a bet from a missed draw"

yes

Re: 40-80 QJo bb
 

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"Are you checking to induce a bet from a missed draw"

yes

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but it looks like sb is willing to call w/ a worse hand. so you're giving up that value for some uncertain outcome depending on a bet by inpositionDonk where he has shown no aggression at all in the hand. id expect a check from him more than a bet and maybe a call from a hand that hit the turn card (gambler) or a hand that is made but worse than yours

Barron

Re: 40-80 QJo bb
 

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i still dont think 40 is high stakes but whatever.


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40 is mid stakes. high stakes is 80 and above.


on this hand i think you will gain a little more value by betting. it looks like no one has an ace, and you might get called by any pair from one of these guys according to your descriptions. i think that way gives you more value than inducing a bluff and i agree you should not fold.

Re: 40-80 QJo bb
 

With only one overcard to your queen (let's disregard the ace on this hand) I think calling on the turn is OK. I don't know why you checked on the river.

The Heart of Donkness
 

mike,

I am disappointed. I am unfulfilled. You used to be one of the all-time great player-describers. Now instead of telling how a guy plays in general and how he is playing and thinking in that instant that the hand happened and giving little examples of plays he's made and telling what he thinks about you and what he's wearing or whatever else, you say one word: donk.

At least make up some new words or something. How about if we have five kinds?

We could have donks, and danks, and dinks, and dunks, and denks. Denks doesn't work for me. I like the first four though. Then we could have dunkdinks. Dankdonks. Etc. Now we're getting somewhere. You can do this mike. Run with it. Take us into the heart of donkness.

OK, OK . . .
 

I admit it. That was fricken hilarious.

TSP

Danke Schoen
 

n/t

Re: 40-80 QJo bb
 

OK, so they stare at the flop. To me, that means no ace, but possibly second pair and/or some kind of draw (K-T? Q-8).

Now when the sb bets out on the turn, I'd assume the 8 helped him in some way: maybe a hand that beats yours (Q-T? J-8?), maybe not (J-T? K-T?). So I'd just call too, confident I have the 3rd guy beat.

The river is the blank of blanks. I'd prefer to bet here once sb checks, reasoning the 3rd guy would be thinking he'd have to get by 2 players if he were to bluff, and that since he hasn't shown any aggression whatsoever this hand, he's less likely to bet the river for what he sees as value. They like to call on the river more than they like to bet since not betting still gives them a chance to win the pot whereas not calling doesn't.

Re: 40-80 QJo bb
 

I can't figure out the SB, so I bet the river. With the uberdonk still in the hand it means hand doesn't have to be good 1/2 the time, and I'm guessing it will be good 1/2 the time or more.

Re: The Heart of Donkness
 

im not sure what to say. my heart's not really in this posting stuff anymore. they just play bad. they are loose and passive and randomly aggressive sometimes. so donk's is easy even though it's not special.

Re: 40-80 QJo bb
 

you had it perfect until here:

"reasoning the 3rd guy would be thinking"

result
 

alright whatever this hand was boring.

preflop i could raise but whatever.

flop, betting is clearly right.

turn: i like just calling and letting utg stay in.

river: i checked to induce a bluff. utg bet as hoped, sb folded, i called.

showdown: youll all like this. utg tables KQo for nut nothing. i see it as KJ because my vision is bad and i supposedly dont have time to go to costco and spend $100 for an eye exam and glasses. i flash him my QJ but dont table it and laugh and say "that's good" and muck my winning hand just as i notice that in fact he has no pair. they push the pot to him and i say "oops."

Re: result
 

Time for a good puke session. I done similiar before.

Re: result
 

So really, if you had raised turn, pot might have been yours in the end.

As it is, I dont have problems calling turn either. I just like raising it better.

EDIT: He may have called turn raise with his gutshot, so maybe that would not have saved the pot. Dunno. Still get an eye exam, seriously.

Re: 40-80 QJo bb
 

Hi mike, I'd think that a long stare at the flop would tend to be some kind of straight potential trying to figure out exactly what it is they hold. Something like T9 or KT or T7 or something like that.

When he donks the turn 8, that seems bad for you. It takes a special kind of player to be bad enough to be a donk but aggressively enough to fire a draw or something weak on the turn like this. I'd probably muck it right there in this small pot.

Having called and seen the river, I think there is enough confusion about their hands that QJ looks pretty good. I'd probably call a bet there, but overcall I'm not so sure. It certainly looks like you have the SB beat, but... well, I'm not sure. I certainly don't fault you for overcalling there.

good luck.
eric

Re: 40-80 QJo bb
 

[ QUOTE ]
i still dont think 40 is high stakes but whatever.

good live game i have QJo in the bb. a donk limps utg, sb who is uberdonked calls, i check.

the flop is AJ9. there's a long pause as they stare at the flop. sb checks, i bet, they both call.

the turn is an 8. sb bets, i call, utg calls.

the river is a 2. sb checks, i check with the intention of calling and even overcalling.

comments?

[/ QUOTE ]

why not pop the turn if you think you are ahead?

Re: result
 

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showdown: youll all like this. utg tables KQo for nut nothing. i see it as KJ because my vision is bad and i supposedly dont have time to go to costco and spend $100 for an eye exam and glasses. i flash him my QJ but dont table it and laugh and say "that's good" and muck my winning hand just as i notice that in fact he has no pair. they push the pot to him and i say "oops."


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This makes me laugh and cry at the same time. I had a bunch of people get pissed at me before I got my glasses thinking I was slow rolling them. I really was just squinting to try and see their hand before I tabled mine.

It is like the folks who save a few hunded bucks because they "can't afford" a good monitor and then multitable the 30/60. One mistake is all it takes.

Re: 40-80 QJo bb
 

you're winning on the river. i think betting here is a better play.

hahaha...i just looked at the result. now my line really rules becasue both fold and you have no chance to muck the winner.