(6max nl100) bluff river?
 

i don't remember much about villain, but i had been openning a lot of pots and usually cbetting. comments on all streets.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 max, 5 handed) converter

MP ($71.20)
Hero ($93.80)
SB ($115.78)
BB ($168.15)
UTG ($56.55)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls $1, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $5</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls $4, MP folds.

Flop: ($11.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $7</font>, BB calls $7.

Turn: ($25.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $10</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $32</font>, BB calls $22.

River: ($89.50) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, hero?

Re: (6max nl100) bluff river?
 

Hey SChwaza,


As requested, comments on all streets:
PREFLOP

While I too open with a wide range of hands, I think that (1) dont do it with 69s (2) if you do be willing to give it up after a flop bet-call.

FLOP:
Fine...your whole point was to steal preflop or on the flop.

TURN:
I am done with this hand. I cannot think of a single hand that you beat or could blow him off that he called that flop with.

I figure him for either a weak A or maybe a Q.

When he does call the turn...

RIVER:
There is no way I am betting this river. Villain has a weak A too many times, or a Q that he will call you down with after seeing you open so many times.

To blow him off a Q, youd have to bet real big. But, the thing is...if he has an A, your toast. If he has a Q I think he may call as he has obviously pegged you for NOT haveing an A. Even more likley you dont have the A with one falling on the river.

Ya dig?

jw

Re: (6max nl100) bluff river?
 

[ QUOTE ]
TURN:
I am done with this hand. I cannot think of a single hand that you beat or could blow him off that he called that flop with.

I figure him for either a weak A or maybe a Q.

[/ QUOTE ]

first, you just listed two hands i might blow him off. and i have an oesd now, so i'm not folding.

Re: (6max nl100) bluff river?
 

I hate the turn raise. Your hand is well consealed and it is unlikely that villain is folding the turn. Call and try to get it all-in on the river when you make your hand.

Edit: You only have about $50 left correct? That's like 1/2 the pot, so I expect any A and some Q's to call. I think you should just give up on the river.

Re: (6max nl100) bluff river?
 

[ QUOTE ]

I am done with this hand. I cannot think of a single hand that you beat or could blow him off that he called that flop with.

[/ QUOTE ]

3.5:1 with an OESD? It seems like we can make a big bet on the river when we hit often enough to justify a call here.

Re: (6max nl100) bluff river?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I hate the turn raise. Your hand is well consealed and it is unlikely that villain is folding the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

i thought there was a decent chance he'd fold a Q there, or maybe a weak A. i think i have a fairly convincing big A after that action.

Re: (6max nl100) bluff river?
 

Preflop is kind of pushing the envelope. Flop CB OK sure. Call the turn though. Or you can make an arguement for pushing the turn. But your "value bet" is too easy for him to call as he has shown too much interest in the hand. As played, give it up on the river.

Re: (6max nl100) bluff river?
 

you should have a better sense of how much fold equity you have than any of us.

I will say that the A on the river hurts your fold equity.

Re: (6max nl100) bluff river?
 

[ QUOTE ]

I will say that the A on the river hurts your fold equity.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's what i decided. i checked behind and he had QT. no idea if he would have folded it.

i should've mentioned this is in the op, but the limper was crappy and liked limping garbarge hands and then either folding to my pfr or check-folding his misses on the flop. i would probably not raise an unknown there.

Re: (6max nl100) bluff river?
 

fold preflop

as it played, give up after the flop

Re: (6max nl100) bluff river?
 

preflop good

turn call or push


I've been making these types of raises against marginal one pair hands and they have been consistently getting called. I'm pleased that I am putting villain on the right hand; but displeased that I'm not betting correctly to win the hand.

Re: (6max nl100) bluff river?
 

oops, I missed his OESD.. turn raise is fine, but I don't think villian is folding his A on the river.

Re: (6max nl100) bluff river?
 

[ QUOTE ]
TURN:
I am done with this hand. I cannot think of a single hand that you beat or could blow him off that he called that flop with.

I figure him for either a weak A or maybe a Q.


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first, you just listed two hands i might blow him off. and i have an oesd now, so i'm not folding.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps, but with a $22 raise? Many of these yahoos arent folding their pair of aces for that much.

I was commenting that I dont think you are blowing him off a weak A (maybe not of a Q) as it seems he feels you dont have an A.

Re: (6max nl100) bluff river?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am done with this hand. I cannot think of a single hand that you beat or could blow him off that he called that flop with.


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3.5:1 with an OESD? It seems like we can make a big bet on the river when we hit often enough to justify a call here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps I should read the board better [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Totally missed the turned OESD.

That condsidered, I still dont like the $22 raise. Flat call with plenty of implied odds for your draw or push. I dont think the $22 raise has enough FE.

jw

Re: (6max nl100) bluff river?
 

preflop: fold
flop: given pfr, cb is ok...
turn: smooth call
river: check behind

Re: (6max nl100) bluff river?
 

Hhere's another thought: Call the turn and bet every river card. This avoids facing a 3-bet on the turn, and a bluff is more likely to work if he checks the river.

Re: (6max nl100) bluff river?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hhere's another thought: Call the turn and bet every river card. This avoids facing a 3-bet on the turn, and a bluff is more likely to work if he checks the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

you don't think that would be a likely Q/weak A that wants a small pot and will call the river?

Re: (6max nl100) bluff river?
 

[ QUOTE ]
i should've mentioned this is in the op, but the limper was crappy and liked limping garbarge hands and then either folding to my pfr or check-folding his misses on the flop. i would probably not raise an unknown there.

[/ QUOTE ]

more of a reason to not raise the turn or bluff the river

Re: (6max nl100) bluff river?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i should've mentioned this is in the op, but the limper was crappy and liked limping garbarge hands and then either folding to my pfr or check-folding his misses on the flop. i would probably not raise an unknown there.

[/ QUOTE ]

more of a reason to not raise the turn or bluff the river

[/ QUOTE ]

the limper folded and i played against the BB. i was just discussing why i raised pf to begin with.

Re: (6max nl100) bluff river?
 

[ QUOTE ]
preflop: fold
flop: given pfr, cb is ok...
turn: smooth call
river: check behind

[/ QUOTE ]

I gotta agree that the turn is where it all went wrong. I really think that is a smooth call or raise big/push situation. By reraising small (and given action so far you must expect that bet to be called, right?) you've effectively killed all your chances of bluffing the river, not to mentioned you've paid way too much for your draw.

You could have called turn, being given 3.5:1 immediate odds on your draw, which is probably +EV given likely river action. Instead you put in $22, giving villain about 3:1 for his call, and leaving you with less than 2:1 on your $32 for your draw. Which is bad! Villain does not need much of a hand (which he didn't have either looking at results) to call this. Either call or bet more/push.

I'd definitely opt for the smooth call on the turn and see if you hit your draw. If you hit you'll likely get paid off at least a little more. If you don't hit, well it's bet or fold depending on your read (if he checks river, does he do this to induce a bet or because he's weak). With only $35 in the pot and around $70 behind, you have more options when it comes to bet size (its not push or check). A pot size bet might steal it ( as opposed to your turn bet), so I really like this line much better if you've "decided" to steal the pot.

I'm guessing a Q would most likely fold, but an A would likely call a PSB on the river given your own description of your play/image?