Worst decision ever?
 

So I was killing some time in the $40 NL game at Hawaiian Gardens and a very strange situation came up. I manage to get all the money in preflop with KK. The dealer runs the board, and after the river my opponent shows me 55 for just a pair. I table my cards out in front of me, but one hits the hand of the guy next to me, does a somersault, and lands face down on top of the muck. The dealer automatically called my hand dead and started pushing the pot to 55. I call the floor over, and he says he could tell which card was mine, but the floor people there arent allowed to touch the cards??? so he has to call a supervisor to do it. The sup gets there and starts arguing with me about the meaning of easily identifiable. According to her, a card has to be face up to be identifiable. She asks the table if anyone saw my other king, and when they all say no, she rules my hand dead because even if the card on top of the muck was a king, I had no proof that it was in my hand [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] I wish I had a camera on me to show how "easily identifiable" my card was. Every card in the muck was going in the same direction, except for my king on the very top which was at an exact 90 degree angle from the others. Am I way off or was this a [censored] decision.

Re: Worst decision ever?
 

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I table my cards out in front of me, but one hits the hand of the guy next to me, does a somersault, and lands face down on top of the muck.

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Tabled your hand, or spiked your hand? I mean, how hard did you table your hand? It takes a bit to somersault all the way to the muck. Maybe you should look into a new hand tabling technique. Might save you some grief in the future. Treat your cards like prized possessions when you have the winning hand.

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She asks the table if anyone saw my other king, and when they all say no,

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This lends me to believe that there is a little more to the story. Oh well.

Reminds me of the situation where a guy spiked his KK(set) on the table which would've beat the QQs set except it cartwheeled off the table and hit the floor. It was a dead hand even though it was the only card on the floor. Needless to say, he was a little irate at the ruling. Hard to buy that type of entertainment though.

b

Re: Worst decision ever?
 

I was in the two seat and the cards hit the one seats hand. So its not like the card did an olympic performance across the table.

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She asks the table if anyone saw my other king, and when they all say no,

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This lends me to believe that there is a little more to the story. Oh well.



[/ QUOTE ] This is the part that I thought was the weirdest. Who cares if anyone saw the card if it is obvious its sitting on top of the muck? Ive always understood the rule to be if the cards are easily identifiable from the others in the muck, the floor can declare them live. She refused to even look at it, saying it had to be face up to play.

Re: Worst decision ever?
 

Just take it as a cheap lesson, since I'm confident that you won't ever let go of your cards again before you get the money.

Re: Worst decision ever?
 

Not even close to worst decision ever. Cards never leave my hand until I have a pot. Leave the showmanship to others.

Re: Worst decision ever?
 

I turn them over promptly, nicely and put the dealer's toke on top or leave my finger on the cards until everything is perfectly clear.

You describe it as tabling your hand, it appears to me that you spiked your hand but you certainly did not retain control of your cards until you received the pot.

Re: Worst decision ever?
 

[ QUOTE ]
a king, I had no proof that it was in my hand I wish I had a camera on me to show how "easily identifiable" my card was. Every card in the muck was going in the same direction, except for my king on the very top which was at an exact 90 degree angle from the others. Am I way off or was this a [censored] decision.

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This does sound indentifiable, but if you protect your hand you don't have to worry about getting a decision.

Re: Worst decision ever?
 

Worst tabling of cards ever is more like it.

Re: Worst decision ever?
 

To be a little fair, I believe it is possible to have a card get away from you - especially in the seats near the dealer - if you don't keep a grip on them.

I once watched a guy at the Bellagio 4/8 table his hand normally and due to some unexplained aerodynamic phenomenon one of the cards cartwheeled into the muck. They ruled his hand dead, even though a number of us saw the card as it rolled and knew it was a winner. He didn't spike the cards.

The moral of the story is, when you table your hand, keep a grip on the cards until the pot is coming your way.

At a WSOP satellite last July I had a break-in dealer say "Man, everyone is really holding onto their cards until they have the pot." I thought that was a good thing.

Regards,

T

Re: Worst decision ever?
 

Hey man, I like to sit on the ends of the table. Mainly because I feel conspicuous in seats 5 or 6 and I like the view of the entire table without swiveling my head.

I used to table my cards(flip them) out close to the board as a courtesy to the table until I read stories like yours here. Now I search for an open spot on the felt and 'turn' them over with my hand on them. If I am up against a player at the other end of the table I usually announce my hand for them(I hate slow rolling). Then let the dealer do his/her job.

Thanks 2+2.

Re: Worst decision ever?
 

At our casinos, once a card hits the muck it's dead. No cameras, no asking the players which card it is. Game over. I don't think it matters even if it's face up. Keep your cards protected at all times, esp. during showdown.

ScottieK

Re: Worst decision ever?
 

my sympathy meter didnt even move for this story. maybe because i've never seen a properly tabled hand jump into the muck? i dunno.

ps - stop showboatin it will make you look like an azz when a 5 flops

Re: Worst decision ever?
 

Yeah, people sometimes learn these lessons the hard way, and this is no exception. There's really no denying that good ettiquette prevents these "situations," i.e. a DEATH GRIP on your cards till they give you the MONEY. Next time there probably won't be a "next time" here.

AL

Re: Worst decision ever?
 

I table my cards out in front of me,

but one hits the hand of the guy next to me,

Seems your gripe is with your neighbor having his big paw stuck out in front of you. How inconsiderate of him.

Re: Worst decision ever?
 

All:

I understand the responses, but wait...

Isn't this against the spirit of most cardrooms' policy? The OP may have been dbaggin it, but from the facts, this seems like a really bad call. If this was a homegame, and I had 55, there's no way I'd take this pot. I've heard Al and others talk about the "easily identifiable" rule. If the dealer reached out a hand and slapped the card into the much while he turned it over,would THAT be dead?

As a side note:

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I was killing some time in the $40 NL game at Hawaiian Gardens

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Maybe you stop playing .02-.04 NL live... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Worst decision ever?
 

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If this was a homegame, and I had 55, there's no way I'd take this pot.

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There's a big difference here. I've been in a homegame with friends where the dealer accidentally mucked my cards and they weren't the top two. I told another player, who was not in the hand, what cards I had, and after he found them one on top of the other, the hand resumed.

I'D NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS EXPECT THIS TO HAPPEN IN A CASINO.

If they allowed the OP to retrieve, where do they stop? It needs to be a black and white rule.

OP: It sucks - next time, employ a death grip.

Re: Worst decision ever?
 

"I table my cards out in front of me, but one hits the hand of the guy next to me, does a somersault, and lands face down on top of the muck."

Hard to picture just how that happened. All in, I prefer to turn my cards up right away. And in a way so that they are still in my hand as I'm turning them up. Then there's no question at the river about what I have/had.

Re: Worst decision ever?
 

There's no substitute for the death grip. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

al

Re: Worst decision ever?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I table my cards out in front of me, but one hits the hand of the guy next to me, does a somersault, and lands face down on top of the muck.

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I'd like to see this on video. Sounds kinda like the magic bullet that changed directions 4 times while killing Kennedy.

Re: Worst decision ever?
 

To prevent this in the future, use this technique. Grasp you card between your thumb and forefinger. Rotate your wrist to expose the cards while holding on to them. Lay them gently on the table, and put a finger on top of them. Don't release them until the pot is pushed to you.

Re: Worst decision ever?
 

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Don't release them until the pot is pushed to you.


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Unless of course you are not the winner, in which case things could get contentious.

Re: Worst decision ever?
 

::::In best Simpson's comic book guy voice::::

"Worst Tableing Ever"

Re: Worst decision ever?
 

[ QUOTE ]
There's no substitute for the death grip. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]


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The only problem with that is you can develope a rash or even burn off some of the skin. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]