Professional vs 2nd Income
 

Based on a few months of browsing through posts on this and other forums, it seems that most poker professionals don't really enjoy the game anymore.

Given that anyone with the talent to go pro could also make a very nice side living while still holding down a job w/benefits, why do people choose to do this? Hate working for a boss? Like to set your own hours? Higher aspirations? Love the money too much to let go?

People who play professionally often complain on these forums of boredom, burnout, and unhealthy emotional swings. Wouldn't part-time play with a full-time or part-time job be healthier and add to your enjoyment of the game?

Re: Professional vs 2nd Income
 

I was a software developer making a pretty healthy living before deciding to go pro earlier this year. The reason I quit my full time job was because I simply hated everything about it.

I hated getting up at 5:30-6 in the morning. I hated not getting home until 6 or later in the evening. I hated only getting a handful of hours every day to do what I wanted to do. I hated not getting enough sleep and being near exhausted all the time. On top of that, the work was mind numbingly boring and it wasn't a pleasant place to work.

Now, I get a full 8 hours of sleep every night so I'm rested and feeling good all day. I work whenever I feel like it and I have more "me" time than I've ever had in my life. The stress levels in my life are at an all time low (my hair has stopped thinning - no kidding! ... hopefully it decides to grow back some).

However, poker isn't always good. It does become a grind. Very quickly if you play enough of it. The downswings are harder to swallow if you rely on that money to pay the rent every month. You really have to love the game and be willing to fight through the difficult times.

For a while there, when I was growing thin on money and hitting a lot of rough variance, I was questioning my choice to go pro (I made the leap with not much in terms of savings). But the free time I had gave me a chance to develop PokerAce Hud and the success that it has brought me will allow me a second chance at the tables. A second chance I'm hoping to use to take me to the higher limits and allow me to pursue other investment interests.

Re: Professional vs 2nd Income
 

Poker is rough when you play it day in and day out. It loses a good deal of the "fun" factor and picks up even more of the "work" factor.

For me it was more a personal choice. Spending more time with my husband (who also plays for a living), and being able to have the freedom that doesn't come with a job. Both money and time wise.

Some people are happy making a 2nd income, you'll find those who play for a living have reasons other than money. We're all human. Yeah, money is nice, but it's more than that for most people.

Re: Professional vs 2nd Income
 

Interesting that you and your husband both play. I've always wondered about households where the spouses share a profession. Do you even talk poker or do you avoid the topic?

I don't make anything more than a middle class living, but I think it would be very hard to replace my salary plus the benefits I would lose (not that I'm capable of going pro). It just seems like such a hard way to make a living. Can you deduct your losses and other expenses?

Re: Professional vs 2nd Income
 

Assuming you pay taxes.

We talk poker. We argue about poker. What else would we argue about? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Professional vs 2nd Income
 

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People who play professionally often complain on these forums of boredom, burnout, and unhealthy emotional swings.

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People complain all the time about their jobs, usually to people that they work with. Who is an online poker player going to complain to? "Dude, I'm just taking a beating this week," he says to a friend. Friend replies "Dude, you don't have a job, what are you complaining about?" Misery loves company and an ear that understands...this is one place to find it.

I also think that many of the people who are attracted to becoming a professional gambler are predisposed to some of the negative behaviors you mention. The fact that we spend massive amounts of time alone, in front of a computer(or at a table where everyone around us is an adversary) doesn't help.

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Wouldn't part-time play with a full-time or part-time job be healthier and add to your enjoyment of the game?

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I think that for many of us it would.

It does amaze me though, from posts I've seen on this site, how many people here are trying to do healthy things for themselves, who think about saving for the future, who plan ahead.

Re: Professional vs 2nd Income
 

"Any man who would give up even a little bit of freedom for a little bit of security shall recieve niether of either which is exactly what he derserves." -Benjamin Franklin

"I want you to realize that virtually all men experience the same conflict that you do, and that we all move back and forth from demanding greater freedom to demanding greater security." -Alan Schoonmaker

I have done some unofficial research from all of the greats in thier field. Paul McCartney, Thomas Edison, Warren Buffett, Benjamin Franklin and loads of others. What I have found is that all of them have chosen 100% freedom over security and that is a big factor determining why they got to the top of thier fields. They did not work for anyone else. They did not yield to pressures legal or social.

That makes me think poker full time is the way to go. But alas in the end I agree with Mr Schoonmaker. All of those great folks represent about one tenth of one percent of the population. If you are that great than full time (24 hours a day 7 days a week) is the ticket to the top. If not I think the part time road is a lot better.

Re: Professional vs 2nd Income
 

Based on a few months of browsing through posts on this and other forums, it seems that most poker professionals don't really enjoy the game anymore

News Flash!!! Most people who work "normal" jobs for a living don't really enjoy it much after a while either.

Re: Professional vs 2nd Income
 

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"Any man who would give up even a little bit of freedom for a little bit of security shall recieve niether of either which is exactly what he derserves." -Benjamin Franklin


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Too much civ 4 ?

Re: Professional vs 2nd Income
 

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News Flash!!! Most people who work "normal" jobs for a living don't really enjoy it much after a while either.

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Well aren't you the smart one?

Yeah, I understand that. Which is why I asked the question to begin with, jackass. If a "real" job and playing poker end up being much the same, then why would someone choose such a tough and unstable path?

Every thread has an idiot just like you, jumping in with some uninformed, unoriginal comment that's designed to be funny, but isn't. It's like an entire army of socially retarded clones running around desperately trying to assert their relevance.

Here's the newsflash: you're tiresome. Now STFU. The adults are having a discussion.

Re: Professional vs 2nd Income
 

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why do people choose to do this? Hate working for a boss? Like to set your own hours? Higher aspirations? Love the money too much to let go?

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I think you probably hit on many of the answers right there.

My feeling is that a person's decision to go pro has a lot to do with how much they like/hate their "regular" job. If you like your full-time job, then poker becomes a nice 2nd income. If you hate your job, the "grind" of being a poker pro sounds pretty appealing by comparison.

I think a lot of wannabe pros use the "but everyone hates their job" argument, but what they really mean is "I hate MY job." Many people do in fact like their jobs and would never want to give it up to play poker full-time.

Re: Professional vs 2nd Income
 

Defensive much?

Re: Professional vs 2nd Income
 

No, just easily irritated by people who pop into threads, assume the OP is stupid, then drop in a snotty, unfunny remark.

This forum is full of them. All they do is snipe with their one-liners, yet they never say anything interesting or amusing.

I mean, if you're going to take a shot, entertain me or someone else while you're at it. Typing "Newsflash" before stating something you think is obvious is about as funny as a Bob Saget one-liner on America's Funniest Home Videos.

Re: Professional vs 2nd Income
 

Wait, Bob Saget isn't funny? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Seriously though, 2+2 has its share of wise asses. It's best just to ignore them. No point in bringing more attention to their posts.

Re: Professional vs 2nd Income
 

my point is that i hate to do something 7-8 hours without a break. So i prefer a bit poker, a bit my job and a bit stockmarket

Re: Professional vs 2nd Income
 

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Seriously though, 2+2 has its share of wise asses. It's best just to ignore them. No point in bringing more attention to their posts.

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Good point. I'm a grouch today anyway, so there you have it.

Re: Professional vs 2nd Income
 

I owned(own) a siding and window company and shut it down midsummer to give poker a run. I'm not much of a people person and enjoy just chilling in a room for hours. I don't make as much as before and i work twice as long, but i'm happy. To make poker a job you have to know yourself. Is it what your really want to do, or is it a case of the green grass on the other side. I for one won't be crying about the grind of playing poker. Sure beats being 30 feet of the ground, hanging by your nuts, doing something you hate just for the money.

I wonder how many of the people who get burned out Play more then one table. I sometimes play two tables but 90% of the time I play only one table. Playing more then one table for me just gets out of hand. I also find switching up the game I play helps. I like to bounce between No limit, Limit, and Pot Limit Omaha. If you can learn to play a few different forms of poker it will take away some of the dullness. The last thing i do to stay fresh is bounce site to site. Any given day I'll play 3 to 4 sites.

Better to go broke trying then to have never tried.

Re: Professional vs 2nd Income
 

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No, just easily irritated by people who pop into threads, assume the OP is stupid, then drop in a snotty, unfunny remark.

This forum is full of them. All they do is snipe with their one-liners, yet they never say anything interesting or amusing.


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Ehhhhhh..... on reflection, Kurn, Son or Mogh probably wasn't trying to be a jerk. Complete overreaction on my part. I should save this stuff for people who really deserve it.

Apologies to Kurn, Son of Mogh.

Re: Professional vs 2nd Income
 

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Yeah, I understand that. Which is why I asked the question to begin with, jackass. If a "real" job and playing poker end up being much the same, then why would someone choose such a tough and unstable path?


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Because even when you hate both equally, they are not the same. I was self employed for 10 years before I made the choice to do this for a living.

After 10 years in the video industry I started to hate my job. After a year and a half of playing full time I hate poker.(maybe hate is to strong a word, but I no longer look forward to playing and I put it off when ever I can.) It is no longer fun for me.

But playing poker allows me to choose when and how much I want to play. I don't have to be at work for 9am because my store opens at 10am. I can pick and choose my hours.

I can spend more time with family and friends and my work schedule revolves around my social schedule, most people have it the other way around.

I don't have to be ordered around all day by some pencil pushing, pimply faced management jackass. I can do what I want when I want.

Re: Professional vs 2nd Income
 

hobbes more posts on girls less on poker. this subject has been discussed extensively by everyone on the forums. do a searh in the archives and you find some great and definitive thoughts on this subject.

Re: Professional vs 2nd Income
 

Ok, dude. I have an extensive post on dating coming up.

I aim to please!!! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Professional vs 2nd Income
 

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Better to go broke trying then to have never tried.

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Amen.

I'd hate myself if I let the poker boom go by without giving it a shot.

I missed the dot-com boom.
I missed my shot at playing pro baseball.

Re: Professional vs 2nd Income
 

I play poker (professionally) everyday and have fun playing everyday. People that get burned out basically just picked the wrong career probably.

Re: Professional vs 2nd Income
 

out of everybody on this message board you are literally the only one that hasn't gotten burned out (YET).