Worst WSOP Final Table Ever
 

The worst WSOP final table ever was either 2002 or 2005.

2002 top seven:
Robert Varkonyi
Julian Gardner
Ralph Perry
Scott Gray
Harley Hall
Russell Rosenbloom
John Shipley

2005 top seven:
Joseph Hachem
Steve Dannenmann
John Barch
Aaron Kanter
Andrew Black
Scott Lazaar
Daniel Bergsdorf

I challenge you to find a worse WSOP final tables than these two. Here is a link where the final table finishers are listed.

Re: Worst WSOP Final Table Ever
 

Ive never seen 2002, but it doesnt look too hot. Black & Barch alone made the 2005 table a good one, especially if you listened on Cardplayer and didnt go by just ESPN.

Re: Worst WSOP Final Table Ever
 

2002 didn't have big names, but I think it was mostly pros. 2005 had some good players, but it is probably the worst ever.

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I hope to be part of the worst WSOP final table ever someday.

Re: Worst WSOP Final Table Ever
 

Though Gardner was very young, he was already a pro, and has put up some decent results since then.

I may be wrong, but I want to say that Ralph Perry had made a previous WSOP Final Table.

Hall, Rosenblum, and Shipley were/are all accomplished pros.

Re: Worst WSOP Final Table Ever
 

I'd have to disagree on 2002. Rosenbloom, Gardner and Shipley are all top players.
I don't know that 2004 was any better. You only really had one name player going in..Harrington.

Re: Worst WSOP Final Table Ever
 

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I'd have to disagree on 2002. Rosenbloom, Gardner and Shipley are all top players.
I don't know that 2004 was any better. You only really had one name player going in..Harrington.

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I think there were only one or two weak players in 2004, although only one big name. I think there were 4 players with previous final tables. Raymer and Willaims were obviously strong, although not established pros.

Re: Worst WSOP Final Table Ever
 

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I'd have to disagree on 2002. Rosenbloom, Gardner and Shipley are all top players.
I don't know that 2004 was any better. You only really had one name player going in..Harrington.

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Josh Arieh?

Re: Worst WSOP Final Table Ever
 

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I'd have to disagree on 2002. Rosenbloom, Gardner and Shipley are all top players.
I don't know that 2004 was any better. You only really had one name player going in..Harrington.

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Josh Arieh?

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He's had some good efforts since, but you can't say he was a name player going in.

Re: Worst WSOP Final Table Ever
 

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I'd have to disagree on 2002. Rosenbloom, Gardner and Shipley are all top players.
I don't know that 2004 was any better. You only really had one name player going in..Harrington.

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Josh Arieh?

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He's had some good efforts since, but you can't say he was a name player going in.

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No he was literally the best player you never heard of, similiar to Allen Cunningham before this year...and of course I'm talking about the "general poker public" not people in the know.

Re: Worst WSOP Final Table Ever
 

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I'd have to disagree on 2002. Rosenbloom, Gardner and Shipley are all top players.
I don't know that 2004 was any better. You only really had one name player going in..Harrington.

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Josh Arieh?

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He's had some good efforts since, but you can't say he was a name player going in.

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Having a bracelet before that final table isn't too shabby.

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He's had some good efforts since, but you can't say he was a name player going in.

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He won a WSOP Braclet - limit hold 'em in 1999 - and got a second to Chan in 2000. So he had, what, 50% of all the braclets at the 2004 final table? Do you have to have been on tv since 2003 to be a "name player"? I guarantee you that Greg Raymer knew of him prior to the final table.

-TripKings

Re: Worst WSOP Final Table Ever
 

wasn't al kruk (2004) also at 2 other final tables at the world series?

Re: Worst WSOP Final Table Ever
 

Yep, Al Krux was at his 3rd main event final table (I think 1990 and 1995 were his other ones) and he was also a bracelet holder (PLHE in 1996). So the 2004 FT had 3 prior bracelet winners (Harrington, Arieh, Krux), along with Raymer and Williams who've had some success since then as well.

Re: Worst WSOP Final Table Ever
 

very good point on al kruk..that was a big miss by me.

arieh was not a big name. he definitely was known by some top players.

Re: Worst WSOP Final Table Ever
 

Is it really fair to start judging the 2005 WSOP final table? Let's see what these guys can do with $1 million+ added to the bankroll. Hachem and Dannenmann have already made final tables since the main event. Some of these guys may have only played a few events since then.

Re: Worst WSOP Final Table Ever
 

May need to wait a couple years to pass judgement on the recent massive field Main Events and the final tables.

Re: Worst WSOP Final Table Ever
 

Any reason you left it at 7? If you make it 9 which is generally referred to as the final table then 2005 adds Matusow and 2002 Minh Ly.

Re: Worst WSOP Final Table Ever
 

Cunningham had been at least one WPT final table, he was known before this year. better known than Arieh was going into last year.

Re: Worst WSOP Final Table Ever
 

Amusingly (or not amusingly) enough, by the very fact that the players on the 2005 final table were on the 2005 final table they will now be considered by John Q. Sixpack to be some of the best players of the game.

Many don't realize just how many people have gotten into the game in the last year -- and, for them, this is their first main event so those players are THE players of the year.

Right or wrong, perception is oftentimes reality.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

Re: Worst WSOP Final Table Ever
 

2002 had many notable plays, Gardner is a great player and doesn't Ralph Perry play in like the biggest games?

Re: Worst WSOP Final Table Ever
 

If I kept it at nine then I would have to include Matusow for 2005 and both Minh Ly and Tony D for 2002. 2005 would still be bad because Matusow, as good as he is, would not be enough to lift the group above the historically low level that they are in. But Ly and Tony D would have too positive an effect because Tony D has often been named the greatest heads up NL player in the world while Ly is a highly respected very high stakes player, and that wouldn't be good because I really really want to make 2002 the worst ever. Thus, the top seven instead of top nine.

Re: Worst WSOP Final Table Ever
 

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The worst WSOP final table ever was either 2002 or 2005.

2002 top seven:
Robert Varkonyi
Julian Gardner
Ralph Perry
Scott Gray
Harley Hall
Russell Rosenbloom
John Shipley

2005 top seven:
Joseph Hachem
Steve Dannenmann
John Barch
Aaron Kanter
Andrew Black
Scott Lazaar
Daniel Bergsdorf

I challenge you to find a worse WSOP final tables than these two. Here is a link where the final table finishers are listed.

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A challenge? Worst final table ever? This was really really easy.

1971. Only six participants in the damn thing. Everybody made the final table and there wasn't even a full table. Not only that, the buy-in was $5000 Its not just the quality of the competition on the final table its the difficulty involved in getting to the final table.

Only 1972 rivals 1971 as far as ease of making the final table and that one edges 1971 for not quite being the worst final table ever because the buy-in went up to 10k and Amarillo Slim one and then went on Carson and other outlets and gave the tourney the Pub it needed to put it on the track to where it is today.

I don't care if Johnny Moss did beat Puggy Pearson in 1971 and Puggy himself went on to win in 1973. That 1971 final table was much worse than 2002 and 2005, without a doubt.

--Zetack

Re: Worst WSOP Final Table Ever
 

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The worst WSOP final table ever was either 2002 or 2005.

2002 top seven:
Robert Varkonyi
Julian Gardner
Ralph Perry
Scott Gray
Harley Hall
Russell Rosenbloom
John Shipley

2005 top seven:
Joseph Hachem
Steve Dannenmann
John Barch
Aaron Kanter
Andrew Black
Scott Lazaar
Daniel Bergsdorf

I challenge you to find a worse WSOP final tables than these two. Here is a link where the final table finishers are listed.

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A challenge? Worst final table ever? This was really really easy.

1971. Only six participants in the damn thing. Everybody made the final table and there wasn't even a full table. Not only that, the buy-in was $5000 Its not just the quality of the competition on the final table its the difficulty involved in getting to the final table.

Only 1972 rivals 1971 as far as ease of making the final table and that one edges 1971 for not quite being the worst final table ever because the buy-in went up to 10k and Amarillo Slim one and then went on Carson and other outlets and gave the tourney the Pub it needed to put it on the track to where it is today.

I don't care if Johnny Moss did beat Puggy Pearson in 1971 and Puggy himself went on to win in 1973. That 1971 final table was much worse than 2002 and 2005, without a doubt.

--Zetack

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I know it seems paradoxical, but the final table when there were only 6 or 8 entries was much stronger than the final table with 5700 entries. When there were 6 entries, they were all very strong players. With 5700 entries, most of the field is amateurs and grinder-type pros.

The players making it to the final table with 5700 are not all top players. I wouldn't even put Black and Barch in the same league with Brunson and Moss.

Re: Worst WSOP Final Table Ever
 

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The worst WSOP final table ever was either 2002 or 2005.

2002 top seven:
Robert Varkonyi
Julian Gardner
Ralph Perry
Scott Gray
Harley Hall
Russell Rosenbloom
John Shipley

2005 top seven:
Joseph Hachem
Steve Dannenmann
John Barch
Aaron Kanter
Andrew Black
Scott Lazaar
Daniel Bergsdorf

I challenge you to find a worse WSOP final tables than these two. Here is a link where the final table finishers are listed.

[/ QUOTE ]

A challenge? Worst final table ever? This was really really easy.

1971. Only six participants in the damn thing. Everybody made the final table and there wasn't even a full table. Not only that, the buy-in was $5000 Its not just the quality of the competition on the final table its the difficulty involved in getting to the final table.

Only 1972 rivals 1971 as far as ease of making the final table and that one edges 1971 for not quite being the worst final table ever because the buy-in went up to 10k and Amarillo Slim one and then went on Carson and other outlets and gave the tourney the Pub it needed to put it on the track to where it is today.

I don't care if Johnny Moss did beat Puggy Pearson in 1971 and Puggy himself went on to win in 1973. That 1971 final table was much worse than 2002 and 2005, without a doubt.

--Zetack

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I know it seems paradoxical, but the final table when there were only 6 or 8 entries was much stronger than the final table with 5700 entries. When there were 6 entries, they were all very strong players. With 5700 entries, most of the field is amateurs and grinder-type pros.

The players making it to the final table with 5700 are not all top players. I wouldn't even put Black and Barch in the same league with Brunson and Moss.

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I don't believe the original question was which was the weakest final table, it was which was the worst. For my money, a final table with a smaller buy-in, where none of the finalists had to beat a single player to make it, is a table that hasn't displayed any skill, stamina, luck, or ability to outplay a soul. Its a table where the only displayed skill is the ability to plunk down $5,000 dollars.

A table full of players who have been lucky, skillful, and mentally resilient enough to outlast a huge field of other players including dozens of the top tourney players and cash game players in the world is a far superior table to one full of players who have demonstrated the ability to sit down.

--Zetack

Re: Worst WSOP Final Table Ever
 

I think you guys are mostly arguing context. Obviously, the final tables from the early seventies can't stack up, much in the same way Babe Ruth pales in comparison to Barry Bonds in terms of the actual skill set thanks to technological and strategic advances. Game theory back then was mostly instinctual and the players didn't have the benefit of the ten thousand of books today's players have, nor the number of peers with which to discuss the game for improvement purposes.

That said, if you're arguing which tables are the best/worst of their time, a big part of the reason those early tournaments were so small is because everyone knew not to mess with the Rounders, who were way further ahead of the field than today's stars. Personally, I link 'best' with greatness and greatness with dominance. As a result, for me, '70 and '71 are among my best.

Re: Worst WSOP Final Table Ever
 

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I think you guys are mostly arguing context. Obviously, the final tables from the early seventies can't stack up, much in the same way Babe Ruth pales in comparison to Barry Bonds in terms of the actual skill set thanks to technological and strategic advances. Game theory back then was mostly instinctual and the players didn't have the benefit of the ten thousand of books today's players have, nor the number of peers with which to discuss the game for improvement purposes.

That said, if you're arguing which tables are the best/worst of their time, a big part of the reason those early tournaments were so small is because everyone knew not to mess with the Rounders, who were way further ahead of the field than today's stars. Personally, I link 'best' with greatness and greatness with dominance. As a result, for me, '70 and '71 are among my best.

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Oh come on, even in those terms the 70's final tables just a few years later are more impressive. Get the thing up to 18 participants, two full tables, with all the cream of the NL world there...

--Zetack

Re: Worst WSOP Final Table Ever
 

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No he was literally the best player you never heard of, similiar to Allen Cunningham before this year...

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If you hadnt heard of Allen Cunningham....well your not much of a poker aficianado. Allen is a better cash game player than ANYONE at the 2004 final table and very well might be better at tourneys than anyone there as well. The guy is a serious contender for top 25 players in the world and possibly top 10.

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I'd have to disagree on 2002. Rosenbloom, Gardner and Shipley are all top players.


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Also, Rosenblum was a 2+2er.

Re: Worst WSOP Final Table Ever
 

what made you think williams was strong?
everything shown of him were bad plays.
but this debate has already been done

Re: Worst WSOP Final Table Ever
 

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A challenge? Worst final table ever? This was really really easy.

1971. Only six participants in the damn thing. Everybody made the final table and there wasn't even a full table. Not only that, the buy-in was $5000 Its not just the quality of the competition on the final table its the difficulty involved in getting to the final table.

Only 1972 rivals 1971 as far as ease of making the final table and that one edges 1971 for not quite being the worst final table ever because the buy-in went up to 10k and Amarillo Slim one and then went on Carson and other outlets and gave the tourney the Pub it needed to put it on the track to where it is today.

I don't care if Johnny Moss did beat Puggy Pearson in 1971 and Puggy himself went on to win in 1973. That 1971 final table was much worse than 2002 and 2005, without a doubt.

--Zetack

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If you are basing it on the ability to sit down vs weeding through the crown then obviously the 1971 table is last, and the 2005 final table is the greatest of all time as they outlasted more than anybody.

I however would disagree and would base it on if you had to play a single table tourney against the players of any years final table (at that time) who would it be. I would wager that you would have a much tougher time against the 1971 table then the 2002 or 2005 table for example.

Re: Worst WSOP Final Table Ever
 

1991: Daugherty, Farsai, Green, Holt, Hunsucker, O'Dea, Shirey, Veltri, Williams. Who? O'Dea and Green are the only ones of note besides Daugherty, who hasn't exactly dominated the circuit since his win.

1997: Besides Ungar, what? Bao, Bjorin, Judah, Roepke, Roren, Stanley, Strzemp, Walker. Stanley, Judah, and Bjorin are the only ones of any note.

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A challenge? Worst final table ever? This was really really easy.

1971. Only six participants in the damn thing. Everybody made the final table and there wasn't even a full table. Not only that, the buy-in was $5000 Its not just the quality of the competition on the final table its the difficulty involved in getting to the final table.

Only 1972 rivals 1971 as far as ease of making the final table and that one edges 1971 for not quite being the worst final table ever because the buy-in went up to 10k and Amarillo Slim one and then went on Carson and other outlets and gave the tourney the Pub it needed to put it on the track to where it is today.

I don't care if Johnny Moss did beat Puggy Pearson in 1971 and Puggy himself went on to win in 1973. That 1971 final table was much worse than 2002 and 2005, without a doubt.

--Zetack

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If you are basing it on the ability to sit down vs weeding through the crown then obviously the 1971 table is last, and the 2005 final table is the greatest of all time as they outlasted more than anybody.

I however would disagree and would base it on if you had to play a single table tourney against the players of any years final table (at that time) who would it be. I would wager that you would have a much tougher time against the 1971 table then the 2002 or 2005 table for example.

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Those early final tables had pretty strong self selection. How many people were willing to play in a $10K (at least $25K in today's money) cash game with Johny and Doyle where you couldn't cash out until one person had all the money.

Anyone with $100K or whatever to buy in can play at the "big game" at Bellagio, but I would wager that on any day it has a stronger field than any recent WSOP final table.

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and that wouldn't be good because I really really want to make 2002 the worst ever. Thus, the top seven instead of top nine.

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Dude, you should seriously consider going into science.

Re: Worst WSOP Final Table Ever
 

wasnt ming ly and tony d at the 2002 final table? which would make it pretty strong

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Your avatar is awesome. I'd say about 95% of this forum could be in Erin Ness's position if they had a pretty face and a vagina.

Re: Worst WSOP Final Table Ever
 

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Your avatar is awesome. I'd say about 95% of this forum could be in Erin Ness's position if they had a pretty face and a vagina.

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Not this forum.