3/6 hand vs bakkubakku
 

live 3/6 game but we are at least trying to play somewhat seriously.

bakkubakku openraises in the CO. I call on the button. sb folds. a bad bb calls. 3 way action for what is going to be the pot minus $4 if it gets too big (ridiculous rake structure), so effectively 5 small bets.

flop: J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

bb checks. bakku2 bets. i raise. bb calls. bakku2 3-bets. i call. bb calls. 3 ways to the turn for 7 big bets.

turn: T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

bb checks. bakku2 bets. i raise. bb calls. bakku2 calls. 3 ways for 13 big bets.

river: Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

bb checks. bakku2 checks. i hesitate for a couple of seconds and check behind.

what kind of hands do we have here and how did we play. (and let us be a little openminded about my deicion to coldcall preflop rather than 3-bet or fold, since i know many of you will be curious about it.)

chris aka cdc

Re: 3/6 hand vs bakkubakku
 

I cant believe you didnt 3bet preflop!! Just kidding [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
Ok I'll give it a shot as to what you guys have....I think you have either AJs, AA, or KK. I think bakkubakku's range is much wider, he can have AA,KK,QQ,AJ,KJ,KsQs,AsKs,AsQs, even 9s8s, and 8s7s. Just for fun I'll say you have AA, and Bakkubakku has KK.

Re: 3/6 hand vs bakkubakku
 

I'm going to put you on T9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and bakku2 on either a lower pocket pair. If you had a J you'd value bet this river unless you have reason to believe bakku rivered a Q or a straight.

Re: 3/6 hand vs bakkubakku
 

Homie,

I figured you for QJ until you checked the river. Now, maybe AJs? But I think you'd three bet that. I also have ot think you're betting two pair lots on this river. Bakku's range here is pretty wide, so lets say, I don't know, you have kings?

(note: are you cold calling a hand you'd cold call or [censored] with bakku b/c this is 3/6? If this is [censored] with bakku, then, yeah, KK. If you're cold calling, 77 maybe T9s)

Bakku seems to be on AJ to me. Maybe aces. I don't know.

Re: 3/6 hand vs bakkubakku
 

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I'm going to put you on T9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and bakku2 on either a lower pocket pair. If you had a J you'd value bet this river unless you have reason to believe bakku rivered a Q or a straight.

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i'll say this.. if i had T9s i'm more likely to bet this river than say... a single pair of jacks.

Re: 3/6 hand vs bakkubakku
 

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I'm going to put you on T9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and bakku2 on either a lower pocket pair. If you had a J you'd value bet this river unless you have reason to believe bakku rivered a Q or a straight.

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i'll say this.. if i had T9s i'm more likely to bet this river than say... a single pair of jacks.

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Don't give it away. If I guessed your hand the least you could do is make everyone else guess. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Rob

Re: 3/6 hand vs bakkubakku
 

Is there a point to these I played so-and-so posts?

How are we supposed to know how you people play? Reads? Stats?

We know nothing except that you are playing "somewhat seriously". Great. How do two random people on a board playing "somewhat seriously" play against each other?

You are capable of playing just about any two cards against each other and make just about any play/bluff against each other based on what you know about each other. Your "open-minded" coldcall starts us off nicely.

I know you guys contribute to the forum in many other ways and its appreciated but this really isnt one of them.

Re: 3/6 hand vs bakkubakku
 

[ QUOTE ]
Is there a point to these I played so-and-so posts?

How are we supposed to know how you people play? Reads? Stats?

We know nothing except that you are playing "somewhat seriously". Great. How do two random people on a board playing "somewhat seriously" play against each other?

You are capable of playing just about any two cards against each other and make just about any play/bluff against each other based on what you know about each other. Your "open-minded" coldcall starts us off nicely.

I know you guys contribute to the forum in many other ways and its appreciated but this really isnt one of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're 100% wrong on this. This is a handreading post and it's meant for practice. Chris playing seriously means he doesn't have T4o here OTB -- he has a hand that is playable against a TAG's opening range from the HJ, which is decent but not asinine.

As far as handreading goes this one actually isn't that tough, but attempting it may help your game.

Rob

Re: 3/6 hand vs bakkubakku
 

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Is there a point to these I played so-and-so posts?

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Yes, to see hands. And to be able to read them.

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How are we supposed to know how you people play? Reads? Stats?

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Two players who play pretty decently.

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We know nothing except that you are playing "somewhat seriously". Great. How do two random people on a board playing "somewhat seriously" play against each other?

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Me and bakkubakku are hardly random people, but I understand your frustration. Also, if this was some BS post where I had 32o or something, I wouldn't have wasted your time.

[ QUOTE ]
You are capable of playing just about any two cards against each other and make just about any play/bluff against each other based on what you know about each other. Your "open-minded" coldcall starts us off nicely.

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When two good, decent players play with each other you will be surprised just how little bluffing there actually is goihng on. I do not expect him to have garbage here and he does not expect the same out of me.

About the coldcall. Just because you wouldn't do it, or other 2p2ers wouldn't do it, it does not mean other decent to good players do it to your raises either. so when a decent or good player coldcalls you preflop what do you do? this has nothing to do with me being fancy or "making a play" at him. i'm just playing a hand of poker. nothing more nothing less.

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I know you guys contribute to the forum in many other ways and its appreciated but this really isnt one of them.

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sorry you feel that way, but *i feel* there are some important concepts in this hand.

Re: 3/6 hand vs bakkubakku
 

BB has a draw maybe 87 for the straight or a flush draw.

bakku2 has KK and slowed down the turn to the raise fearing a set or a cold called AA more a set though.

You have AJs or KQ spades?

But either of these hands I reraise. I assume your cold call was to suck in the fish to increase your equity?

Re: 3/6 hand vs bakkubakku
 

So I'm guessing you have AJ, KJ now and Bakku2 either rivered you or is ahead.

Re: 3/6 hand vs bakkubakku
 

I think BB won the hand with AK

Re: 3/6 hand vs bakkubakku
 

Hopefully I can be embarrasingly wrong so I can learn something about playing and reading good players. I tend to way overthink things against TAGs. Here goes:

I think the key to this is putting Chris on a hand once he raises the turn. Once bakku 3-bets the flop, I think Chris probably reads him for either a jack or an overpair. Spades are possible but I don't know if bakku would want to 3-bet them out of position. I kind of doubt bakku would 3-bet with air here, especially considering that the BB already called 2 cold.

So, once Chris raises the turn, I think he is announcing that he either has bakku beat (JT) or he has bakku beat reasonably often and wants to push out BB (AJ). JT is the more likely, imo, due to preflop.

I suppose there is an outside chance chris has 66, but I think he'd likely just cap the flop.

If bakku reads Chris for JT or AJ, I think he is often going to call the turn and fold unimproved. If he's up against JT and has an overpair, for example, he has 8 outs. I don't know if he'd fold an overpair though, since AJ is still possible. But would Chris bet AJ on the end? Idk...

Is it possible that Chris would check behind two pair because he doesn't think he could get any value from betting? BB is bad so I think it's possible he'll call without having made his draw. On the other hand, Chirs has to be worried that QQ or QJ for bakku pulled ahead.

Ugh. I can't wait for an explanation on this.

Re: 3/6 hand vs bakkubakku
 

Sorry I'm new here so my guess my be really off but I think Chris has a set 10s, bakku has AJ and bb has the str8.

results and thoughts for those who care
 

i checked an quickly flipped over KJ and bakku did the same and we chopped it up.

i think this hand was played fine by both of us and fairly standard on my part

raising the turn:

1) it charges two big bets to the bb in case he is drawing (which i'm quite sure he was)

2) since i am obligated to call bakku down anyways i might as well put two bets on the turn with the option of checking behind on the river or betting if i still like my hand

3) it really puts the pressure on bakku and he might (though really not) fold better hand

by the time this river card hits there is not much value in it as the only hands i'm reasonably beating is J9 and maybe chopping with KJ. there are a LOT of better hands than me on this river so i don't see much value in a bet here.

had the river been, say 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] then i think a bet is in order though thinking about it now there are not many hands that bakkubakku can have here that i beat.

Re: results and thoughts for those who care
 

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3) it really puts the pressure on bakku and he might (though really not) fold better hand


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You know that no one folds against you. Ever. Evereverever.

Re: results and thoughts for those who care
 

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3) it really puts the pressure on bakku and he might (though really not) fold better hand


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You know that no one folds against you. Ever. Evereverever.

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i'm just saying if someone else in my shoes used this same line and he didn't have my image or reputation it *could* fold a better hand (but still probably not likely)

this isn't actually the greatest example for it, but in similiar spots itll work from time to time.