Set play?
 

Wasnt sure if I should have re-popped the flop. Turn left me not really knowing what to do. River I was worried about K8 or K6...and wasnt sure if I should push due to the flop action. I feel like I was trying to control the pot size...and get value...so it feels like I played it horribly.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP ($90.40)
Button ($113.25)
Hero ($77.25)
BB ($109.40)
UTG ($78.85)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
[color=#666666]1 fold</font>, MP calls $1, Button calls $1, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($4) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](4 players)</font>
[color=#CC3333]Hero bets $2</font>, BB folds, [color=#CC3333]MP raises to $7</font>, Button folds, Hero calls $5.

Turn: ($18) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](2 players)</font>
[color=#CC3333]Hero bets $10</font>, MP calls $10.

River: ($38) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](2 players)</font>
[color=#CC3333]Hero bets $15</font>, [color=#CC3333]MP raises to $50</font>, Hero calls $35.

Final Pot: $138

Re: Set play?
 

i'd like a 3bet on the flop - make it about the new pot size.

lead the turn for 3/4 pot.

river i'd throw down a 2/3 or 3/4 blocking bet.

.edit as played you gotta call here.

Re: Set play?
 

[ QUOTE ]
i'd like a 3bet on the flop - make it about the new pot size.

lead the turn for 3/4 pot.

river i'd throw down a 2/3 or 3/4 blocking bet.

.edit as played you gotta call here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Blocking bet?!?!?!
I push the river. You are likely against AK or a flush here. Are you really worried about KK? If that happens you need to pay the man. Maybe the trip Kings gets off this hand, but the flush will never lay this down.

As it is, you got it all in anyway, so that was great.

Edit: oops I'm a retard, yeah you see a kings over 8s here..
oops (but you also see other 2 pairs) i think you call.. also, i will leave my post to own up to what a moron i am..
please note I edited this before anyone told me [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Set play?
 

That said, I like repopping it on the flop, because AK is never getting away from this at this level, and re-re-raising is a lot of fun!

Re: Set play?
 

I'd pot the flop. Re-pop the flop.

Lead for 2/3 on the turn...

the goal is to build this pot.

Re: Set play?
 

3-bet that flop, either he's dancing or not. You have a set, the only pot control you should be thinking about is how to get it all in the middle. Turn you still have to bet 2/3-3/4 pot. River push whatever you have left. If he has K8 or K6 then that's just bad luck.

Re: Set play?
 

I would be worried about that a pair of kings would fold to a reraise on the flop. So I don't think I would reraise. On the turn and river I would be betting closer to the full pot size. And if he raised on the river I would reraise the rest of my chips if I had any left.

Re: Set play?
 

Id repop the flop there. The villian RR you there, so if he has a legit hand he will call, and if he was on a bluff, he wasnt putting any more in that pot anyway. I think fire the turn, and push the river.

Re: Set play?
 

bomb flop

Re: Set play?
 

5-handed?? Try a raise preflop with 8's....

The flop? Unless you know they're super-ultra-sieve-tight, you gotta push that. Make them pay for that flush draw.

YOu know what i think? I think he thinks that he has the best hand with two pair K's or TPTK, and he's afraid YOU GUYS are drawing... HAHA. I guarantee you if you stay, you got a payday to his 2-pair or TPTK... Of course that King on the river just spells out a possibly lucky full house that beats yours if he did have 2-pair... But that was like a 5-outer and if you popped it on the flop, in the long run, that sort of play is to your advantage as you were way ahead (from my take of the situation) on the flop.

Please feel free to comment on MY comments including criticism, etc. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Re: Set play?
 

[ QUOTE ]
5-handed?? Try a raise preflop with 8's....

[/ QUOTE ]
With 4 people in, and me OOP, I am playing this for set value. I dont really like building pots OOP without premium hands. 3 betting this flop screams set...i think. And if i do threebet, what to I take it to? 30? 25? I feel like that lets him off TPTK, but not two pair....so I dont know how I feel about it.

Re: Set play?
 

I don't see K8 or K6 as a problem... if they had AK they probably would have raised preflop right? Also 5 handed why didn't you raise preflop?

On flop I would pot it and then call similar to what you did. I like your turn bet given pot size but on the river you have to push it in there... the hand I would be worried about is K10.

Guin

Re: Set play?
 

you are only realistically worried about K 10. I don't think he has K8 because of your 88 hand, and k6 is a pretty crappy holding even if he did limp in. I think KJ, KQ, K9...a horribly misplay AK are all possible, as is 66. I push the river and if he has KT then oh well.

Re: Set play?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
5-handed?? Try a raise preflop with 8's....

[/ QUOTE ]
With 4 people in, and me OOP, I am playing this for set value. I dont really like building pots OOP without premium hands. 3 betting this flop screams set...i think. And if i do threebet, what to I take it to? 30? 25? I feel like that lets him off TPTK, but not two pair....so I dont know how I feel about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

RE: THIS POST, NOT OP...

that's true. To be honest, i try not to play-up my small pp's OOP too much either. And yeah, it does scream set.
But here's why you might wanna mix it up and consider that PF raise...

if you raise pre-flop, get callers, then you got a decent pot. The only hand that beats you at this point is KK. SO if they fold, that's fine, b/c you'll get some chips. At this point, you
A&gt; can be a little less worried about the flush draw, check the flop if you feel like gambling against that flush. But once that 3rd spade comes, you got MORE problems and LESS info. YOu're on your own now. IF the spade didn't come, and the turn is promising to them, you gotta (a 3-in-1 functioned bet) 1-prevent the draw now, but 2-let them call the 2-pair or even smaller set, but 3-know if they've got a hand to beat you...

B&gt; Bet for value representing your set. They might think you got the pair of K's. If they re-raise, you know they most likely have the set of K's OR kings up (2 pair). (depends on how much the raise is). If they slowplay your raise on the flop and call you, then most likely you got the hand even with their set, as that 3-flush will cause THEM a lot of problems and your bet could possibly represent a semibluff...

Anyways, in my opinion, i hate ppl catching. So usually, i bet it out. So be it if the pot sucks. Better win a little than lose a lot.

Re: Set play?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wasnt sure if I should have re-popped the flop. Turn left me not really knowing what to do. River I was worried about K8 or K6...and wasnt sure if I should push due to the flop action. I feel like I was trying to control the pot size...and get value...so it feels like I played it horribly.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP ($90.40)
Button ($113.25)
Hero ($77.25)
BB ($109.40)
UTG ($78.85)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
[color=#666666]1 fold</font>, MP calls $1, Button calls $1, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($4) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](4 players)</font>
[color=#CC3333]Hero bets $2</font>, BB folds, [color=#CC3333]MP raises to $7</font>, Button folds, Hero calls $5.

Turn: ($18) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](2 players)</font>
[color=#CC3333]Hero bets $10</font>, MP calls $10.

River: ($38) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](2 players)</font>
[color=#CC3333]Hero bets $15</font>, [color=#CC3333]MP raises to $50</font>, Hero calls $35.

Final Pot: $138

[/ QUOTE ]

RE: OP

Any 2-flush, don't risk it. Pre-flop smells like "not-pocket-kings", so you gotta end it with a decent size pot there already...

Sniff the air.. relish it... taste it... then push all in on the flop...

pick your spots to slowplay carrreeffulllyyy....

Results?
 

You guys want results yet? Or wait for a few more responses?

Re: Results?
 

it doesn't matter to me really... I think we all have our opinion as to how you played it... (not necessarilly bad).. (well, i thikn you made a few teeny tiny mistakes)...

I think you won it to his flush or trips or something...

But i think this was a great hand to post...

Re: Set play?
 

I guess some of the posters are worried that the MP is raising on the flop with a flush draw. Is this common though? Betting out is a better play than raising on a bluff because you don't have to get away with/draw out as often because you are putting in less money to win the pot outright.

With 4 players seeing the flop and you betting out and one person yet to speak I don't really put his raise on the flush draw. It is too likely to get called or raised to be useful I think.

Any reactions?

Results.
 

Ok, well he had As3s for a turned flush, and I sucked out on the river. In retrospect I should have popped the flop. But the question is, does the ablity to control the pot size make you more money with a slowplay? This had I definitely did NOT feel in control. But you know...it happens.

Re: Set play?
 

He had 6's over k's? full house and your hand was good? Or KQ and you won.

Re: Results.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, well he had As3s for a turned flush, and I sucked out on the river. In retrospect I should have popped the flop. But the question is, does the ablity to control the pot size make you more money with a slowplay? This had I definitely did NOT feel in control. But you know...it happens.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you want to control pot size here? This is a situation where you try to figure out the best way to get your money in on the flop.

Re: Set play?
 

People play their 4 flushes like gold, I reraise all in on flop. You have the best hand for sure on the flop, he probably didnt limp w/ KK on flop. I have hurt alot of players stacks by making them pay for their drawing cards.

Re: Set play?
 

[ QUOTE ]
i'd like a 3bet on the flop - make it about the new pot size.

lead the turn for 3/4 pot.

river i'd throw down a 2/3 or 3/4 blocking bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

My set play sucks too, please help

I can see the rationale for 3-betting the flop. Make AK, or the flush draw get more money in while behind. If Hero reraises to 20 on the flop and gets called, there will be about $40 in the pot on the turn.

The turn is the third spade, making a possible flush. Betting 3/4 pot on the turn would have hero betting $30 of his remaining $57 stack. What does hero do when villain then pushes for $27 more? Call and hope the board pairs, right? Is this a better or worse play than just pushing on the turn in the first place?

Okay, assume villain just calls the turn. Hero makes his full house. With $27 left in his stack and a $100 pot, I guess a blocking bet is all hero has left?!? Let me know if I misinterpreted something.

Re: Set play?
 

When you're facing a flop where the next card can beat you a larger lead is required.....at least pot sized, maybe $5 or $6. When you get raised you should re-raise at least pot sized to $25. If this were me it would be a clear signal that if villain is on a flush draw he better plan on hitting the turn cause that's when I'm going to push. If he calls then I take him off the flush draw and put him on AK or set of 6's. If he's not on a flush draw then push the turn.

Re: Set play?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i'd like a 3bet on the flop - make it about the new pot size.

lead the turn for 3/4 pot.

river i'd throw down a 2/3 or 3/4 blocking bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

My set play sucks too, please help

I can see the rationale for 3-betting the flop. Make AK, or the flush draw get more money in while behind. If Hero reraises to 20 on the flop and gets called, there will be about $40 in the pot on the turn.

The turn is the third spade, making a possible flush. Betting 3/4 pot on the turn would have hero betting $30 of his remaining $57 stack. What does hero do when villain then pushes for $27 more? Call and hope the board pairs, right? Is this a better or worse play than just pushing on the turn in the first place?

Okay, assume villain just calls the turn. Hero makes his full house. With $27 left in his stack and a $100 pot, I guess a blocking bet is all hero has left?!? Let me know if I misinterpreted something.

[/ QUOTE ]

ah.. got kind of off track not thinking about the stack sizes.. after the 3bet i think i'd push the turn - i dont feel he's on a flushdraw.

Re: Results.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, well he had As3s for a turned flush, and I sucked out on the river. In retrospect I should have popped the flop. But the question is, does the ablity to control the pot size make you more money with a slowplay? This had I definitely did NOT feel in control. But you know...it happens.

[/ QUOTE ]

As a general rule, if you are going to slowplay (and it's rare to need to in SSNL) do it in position, not out of position. Get money in the pot quick with big hand's oop. Build big pots with big hands.

Edit: Not pushing that river after his raise is a leak. You only have something like 9 bucks left, if you are calling you should be pushing. You may be beat on ocassion but villian will call with many worse hands after putting so much money in.

Re: Set play?
 

Can you please post a hand where your opponent raised on some street and then folded to a re-raise? Cause I don't think I've ever seen that happen at NL100. Pot the flop, 3-bet if raised. Pot the turn. Get WAY more money in the pot. This pot should be at least double what it is by your line at just about every point in this hand. You should pretty much have no problem getting all in on the turn here.

Re: Set play?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I feel like I was trying to control the pot size...and get value...so it feels like I played it horribly.


[/ QUOTE ]

Pot control is a tactic that is used to strike a balance between losing the least when behind while winning the most when ahead, with an emphasis on losing the least when behind.

In this hand on the flop that tactic doesn't apply, becasue you have the best hand and the most equity almost 100% of the time. With the best hand and the most equity, your goal is to grow the pot as much as possible; quite the opposite of "pot control" as it's usually discussed. Your opponent has shown a willingness to go to the matresses with his flop raise.

There is another consideration. Your opponent might be semibluffing (or value semibluffing) the only hand you are really at all vulnerable to: a flush draw. Hand protection should come to mind on a flop &amp; action like this.

Fortunately there's one tactic that fits both bills: aggession from you. Large bets and raises are what's called for here. Pot the flop (not half-pot like you did). When he raises, make a sizable re-raise. If you can, push. If you can't push the flop, you're usually shooting to push the turn.

Re: Set play?
 

omfg just push the river.

Re: Set play?
 

[ QUOTE ]
bomb flop

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Set play?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Can you please post a hand where your opponent raised on some street and then folded to a re-raise?

[/ QUOTE ]
Happened to me last night - I had 66, flop comes 5 6 7 two spades
I bet, villain raises, I make pot size re-raise - villain folds. So, it does happen...

Re: Set play?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Can you please post a hand where your opponent raised on some street and then folded to a re-raise?

[/ QUOTE ]
Happened to me last night - I had 66, flop comes 5 6 7 two spades
I bet, villain raises, I make pot size re-raise - villain folds. So, it does happen...

[/ QUOTE ]
NL100? Wow, you must have horrible game selection or be the nittiest nit in the world. Or both.

Re: Set play?
 

lead pot on flop. You bet too small on flop &amp; turn.
Given your stack, I never worry about FH over FH. But effectively get your stack in against a worse hand is key.