Bottom set facing a 4-bet vs Donk
 

Villian in this hand is bad preflop. Chases postflop.

.50/$1 NLHE 4-handed

Hero has $115, Villian covers.

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Villian posts a blind of $0.50
1 fold, Button calls $1, Villian calls $0.50, Hero checks.

Flop: ($3) K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue"> (3 players) </font>
Villian checks, Hero bets $2, Button folds, Villian raises to $4, Hero raises to $14, Villian raises to $28, Hero ???

In hindsight, he's not doing this with QJ. I think he **might** do this with Kx, KT, K4, T4. I **think** he raises AA/KK preflop. Which leaves us with TT. Do I just call him here and call him down? He has done dumb things postflop, but they have all been overbets into small pots, nothing like this before. Comments welcome.

Re: Bottom set facing a 4-bet vs Donk
 

Villain likes his hand. I think pushing here is perfectly reasonable. I would expect you to be ahead more often than not and a donk will call with alot of hands you beat.

Re: Bottom set facing a 4-bet vs Donk
 

all in. not close.

Re: Bottom set facing a 4-bet vs Donk
 

[ QUOTE ]
all in. not close.

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Re: Bottom set facing a 4-bet vs Donk
 

On that board I'm losing my stack set over set every time.

Re: Bottom set facing a 4-bet vs Donk
 

[ QUOTE ]
all in. not close.

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Re: Bottom set facing a 4-bet vs Donk
 

I think you guys are missing the boat here. One of the golden rules of SSNLHE is to never worry about set over set. I think I have reason to be concerned about it in this hand. And I am willing to BE all-in with my hand. But that doesn't mean I should be willing to GO all-in with my hand. If he puts me there, fine, I'll call it.

Villian is a chaser. Which means he calls alot post-flop. He c/r'd me which could mean anything. But, when he 4-bets that means he's not messing around. There's still alot of room here to not get stacked if he has a set. I'm calling all his bets, but he may not put me all-in. And 42-it, this board especially...there's not alot of bluffing donkability in this board. Unless he has the case 4, he's got KK, TT, or KT, 2 of which I am behind. I think the right thing to do here would be to call, and then call him down.

Re: Bottom set facing a 4-bet vs Donk
 

I have no problem with calling him down after his 4-bet. I think he puts you all-in on the turn or certainly by the river. As long as fold isn't one of your options, I don't think you can misplay this hand after his 4-bet.

Villain's play is odd in that by 3-betting you let him know you weren't going anywhere and he only min-raises the 4-bet. Most villains with KK or TT are putting you all-in right here which is why I think you have reason to believe you are ahead.

Re: Bottom set facing a 4-bet vs Donk
 

donk + set = all-in every time.

I swear you will see some wild stuff here a lot of the time.

Such as:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

BB ($186.95)
Hero ($97.50)
MP ($25.80)
Button ($69.25)
SB ($89.44)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $4</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls $4, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls $3.

Flop: ($12.50) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $7</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $20</font>, Button folds, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $60</font>, Hero calls $73.50 (All-In), BB calls $33.50.

Turn: ($199.50) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: ($199.50) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $199.50

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
BB has 4s Ks (one pair, fives).
Hero has Tc Td (full house, tens full of fives).
Outcome: Hero wins $199.50. </font>

Re: Bottom set facing a 4-bet vs Donk
 

Yeah, but in the OP hand we still have fairly large stacks. i still have $100 behind. I know you see crazy stuff. But mine was c/r followed by a 4-bet. Little different.

Re: Bottom set facing a 4-bet vs Donk
 

You say bad pre-flop, but what VPIP/PFR are we looking at here. This is needed to know how much more likely KT/K4/T4 is than KK/TT.

Re: Bottom set facing a 4-bet vs Donk
 

But pretty much regardless, I am calling that raise and raising all-in on the turn.

Re: Bottom set facing a 4-bet vs Donk
 

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But pretty much regardless, I am calling that raise and raising all-in on the turn.

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Re: Bottom set facing a 4-bet vs Donk
 

I think your standard donk will slow play a set with this board. I'd push since most donks assume that everyone else slow-plays big hands on the flop as well. If I lose to set over set it just wasn't my day.

Re: Bottom set facing a 4-bet vs Donk
 

Anyone else raise $3 preflop here? This is essentially 3-handed and I think a raise is in order.

Re: Bottom set facing a 4-bet vs Donk
 

I'm pushing here 100% of the time. You'll see KT here most of the time. There are 9 combinations of KT and 3 combination of TT so its 3:1 he has KT. Most people will use the same action with KT and TT and KT is a ton more likely.

Re: Bottom set facing a 4-bet vs Donk
 

I would call, and try to raise him all in on the turn.
I think his most likely hand are kt. k4 are also possible or even t4?, but i doubt he has tt.
If i raise on the flop even a donk might wake up and realise that his kt is not the nuts. If we give him one more chance to put some money in the pot, I think it will be hard for him to fold to a raise on the turn.

Re: Bottom set facing a 4-bet vs Donk
 

im puting it in here, the more cards he sees the more you need to worry about.. and someone having a better set on the flop than you is a rare thing, and you will lose a lot of value if you fold even one hand that you're not absolutely POSITIVE he has a better set.. im pushing here all day long. he probably got over excited with K-10 or even K-4 which would leave you drawing to no outs, but has him in a VERY tough spot.

Re: Bottom set facing a 4-bet vs Donk
 

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Anyone else raise $3 preflop here? This is essentially 3-handed and I think a raise is in order.

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Raise to $3 in a $3 pot from the BB? If I am raising this at all, it will be to at least $5, but checking is much much better IMO. This is a cash game, not a tournament.

Re: Bottom set facing a 4-bet vs Donk
 

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I think his most likely hand are kt. k4 are also possible or even t4?, but i doubt he has tt.

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He had TT. And we got it all in the middle. And I couldn't hit my one-outter. Set over set, meh, no biggie, happens. What extra-sucked was this was my last hand of the night before this game broke up at 3:00am. I was quitting 1/2 hour earlier but this guy was itching to give his chips to someone and I was hoping it would be to me. I only played for a few hours last nite so this hand pretty much nullified my profit for the day as well, as I was up a buy-in for the day when this happened.

Re: Bottom set facing a 4-bet vs Donk
 

with your description of him, I go broke here everytime. Once you call the reraise, the pot is too big, you might as well move in right there.

Re: Bottom set facing a 4-bet vs Donk
 

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He had TT. And we got it all in the middle. And I couldn't hit my one-outter. Set over set, meh, no biggie, happens. What extra-sucked was this was my last hand of the night before this game broke up at 3:00am. I was quitting 1/2 hour earlier but this guy was itching to give his chips to someone and I was hoping it would be to me. I only played for a few hours last nite so this hand pretty much nullified my profit for the day as well, as I was up a buy-in for the day when this happened.

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Ooops. At least you were sensible enough to quit after this hand. Good move! But i still think you will be ahead here far more often than you are behind. So which line did you choose?