My Amazon review of Kill Phil
 

"These guys have fleshed out David Sklansky's all-in or fold "system" from Tournament Poker for Advanced Players. And they have done it using concepts similar to those Dan Harrington wrote about in Harrington on Holdem 2 - (i.e., M, Q and zones) combined with position.

If you are new to NLHE tourneys, this is a good way to learn to play. If you aren't new but having trouble, this book will help get you back on the right track.

As for the book itself, there is quite a bit of filler material in the beginning that would only be of interest to complete beginners. But after that, the book is outstanding.

Kill Phil joins the Harrington books, David Sklansky's Tournament Poker for Advanced Players, Barry Greenstein's Ace on the River, Phil Gordon's Little Green Book and Howard Lederer's More Secrets of NLHE DVD as the best resources available on NLHE tourneys."

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0929712...ks&v=glance

Re: My Amazon review of Kill Phil
 

[ QUOTE ]
Kill Phil joins the Harrington books, David Sklansky's Tournament Poker for Advanced Players, Barry Greenstein's Ace on the River, Phil Gordon's Little Green Book and Howard Lederer's More Secrets of NLHE DVD as the best resources available on NLHE tourneys."

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0929712...ks&v=glance

[/ QUOTE ]

You've got to be kidding me.

Re: My Amazon review of Kill Phil
 

i don't think he's kidding.

mason himself said he had a lot of respect for these authors (forget their names) and that he was interested in checking this book out.

Re: My Amazon review of Kill Phil
 

I am very interested in purchasing this book but will wait for Mason's review first. If Mason gives it a 7 or better, I am there.

Re: My Amazon review of Kill Phil
 

Dammit, Binions! Any time I go to read a post of yours I always wind up watching your avatar for 30 seconds before I snap out of it and actually read.

Eh, who am I kidding? I'm not upset, that avatar is good stuff.

Re: My Amazon review of Kill Phil
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Kill Phil joins the Harrington books, David Sklansky's Tournament Poker for Advanced Players, Barry Greenstein's Ace on the River, Phil Gordon's Little Green Book and Howard Lederer's More Secrets of NLHE DVD as the best resources available on NLHE tourneys."

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0929712...ks&v=glance

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You've got to be kidding me.

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Nope.

It's a great way to play SNGs, and in trying to incorporate the system into my MTT arsenal, I have used it for the last few days in four Stars $20+2 180 max SNG/MTT and in one $10 Rebuy.

I placed in three of the 4 $20+2/180 max tourneys - finishing 7th, 13th and 14th. I finished 16th out of 1460 in the one $10R I played using the system. Here are the tourney numbers if you want to verify:

#15635378
#15707064
#15774703
#15370186

Book cost $17, and using it for a week has won $730 in prize money.

To me, a good poker book is one that helps its target audience make money. This one qualifies.

Re: My Amazon review of Kill Phil
 

Interesting, I'll have to check this book out.

Re: My Amazon review of Kill Phil
 

Have to agree with Binion's here. Just read this book over the past few days and it well worth the money spent and time to read it.

Re: My Amazon review of Kill Phil
 

The question all of us are asking is: What does this book contribute that makes it worth it after you have read Harrington ... what is the extra material, what sets it apart ??


Please inform us :-)

Re: My Amazon review of Kill Phil
 

[ QUOTE ]
The question all of us are asking is: What does this book contribute that makes it worth it after you have read Harrington ... what is the extra material, what sets it apart ??


Please inform us :-)

[/ QUOTE ]

I am finishing HoH 2 and Kill Phil is due to be delivered to my house by Wednesday. I'll let you know after next weekend [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: My Amazon review of Kill Phil
 

Cool .... looking forward to it :-)

Re: My Amazon review of Kill Phil
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's a great way to play SNGs, and in trying to incorporate the system into my MTT arsenal, I have used it for the last few days in four Stars $20+2 180 max SNG/MTT and in one $10 Rebuy.

[/ QUOTE ]

What level of the system were you using, KP Basic, Basic Plus, or Expert?

Re: My Amazon review of Kill Phil
 

Maybe you should drop the UT hat and get more boobies in your avatar? But you already demonstrated that boobies = -EV in your experience.

Re: My Amazon review of Kill Phil
 

[ QUOTE ]
The question all of us are asking is: What does this book contribute that makes it worth it after you have read Harrington ... what is the extra material, what sets it apart ??

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree.. that is the major question most people want answered, but reading a book can sometimes be useful even if it doesn't *directly* help your game. If a book becomes very popular and lots of people start reading the book and taking its advice, then reading it helps you to recognize who these players are, quickly get into their heads, and understand and exploit their strategy as best you can.

Re: My Amazon review of Kill Phil
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's a great way to play SNGs, and in trying to incorporate the system into my MTT arsenal, I have used it for the last few days in four Stars $20+2 180 max SNG/MTT and in one $10 Rebuy.

[/ QUOTE ]

What level of the system were you using, KP Basic, Basic Plus, or Expert?

[/ QUOTE ]

Basic Plus with occasional expert variations along the way. Used it to qualify for today's 215 in a 500 FPP satellite.

Re: My Amazon review of Kill Phil
 

I agree it's a good book but to put it on the same level as Harrington + Sklansky I think is really pushing it.

Re: My Amazon review of Kill Phil
 

[ QUOTE ]
Cool .... looking forward to it :-)

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Well, as usual Amazon overachieved and delivered my book 2 days early. I read the first couple chapters then skipped ahead to the basic, and basic-plus strategies. The first few chapters are informational and fluff, not bad, just not really going to help anyone who reads this board with any regularity.

Anyway, the basic program is nearly identical to the Sklansky "crash-course" program. He even makes the statement that he's basically referencing Sklansky. The basic-plus adds your chip stack relative to the blinds/antes. So instead of using the stage of the tourney, you're using your relative chip strength to determine your plays using a predetermined hand ranking. It's quite interesting. I won't go into details but I will say on the surface it seems very easy to pick up and apply quickly.

I have not gotten to the last 2 strategies so I'll save comment on that. Thus far I have really enoyed reading the book if nothing else. It's very well written and the foreward by Phil Helmuth is pretty good too.

Ok, as far as comparing this to HoH...

In HoH2 Dan refers to Slowball vs. Longball. Well, in Kill Phil they write about the same concept. This book basically teaches you longball so inexperienced players can beat Slowballers like Dan and other old-schoolers. So I'd say it is very valuabe to have read both HoH 1&2 and this book. You really get to see the 2 major contrasting styles. I think applying a combination of the Kill Phil early in tournaments and then having the knowledge and experience of post-flop play a la Harrington, you could really be a dangerous player. So while they are 2 contrasting styles, I feel understanding both could very helpful.

One funny thing, Kill Phil authors state that there will be companion cards, similar to the blackjack cards you can get at a casino, being released soon. I find that pretty amusing. I'm gonna crack up if I see people busting out these things at a tourney.

Overall, I give this book a high rating so far. This isn't a complete review, but to answer the question about how it compares to Harrington's books, it is pretty much the opposite approach, but I don't see how knowing about the 2 contrasting styles in tournament hold em is a bad thing. I'll try to come back and post more after I apply this strategy.

Re: My Amazon review of Kill Phil
 

Cool ... alone that it is wellwritten and an enjoyable read makes me consider it strongly ... I guess I'll get it as soon as amazon.co.uk

Re: My Amazon review of Kill Phil
 

[ QUOTE ]
The question all of us are asking is: What does this book contribute that makes it worth it after you have read Harrington ... what is the extra material, what sets it apart ??

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's a little more specific than Harrington gets as to how to play in the Red Zone and Orange Zone. Harrington gives you some guidelines as to how your play differs in these zones. However, since this is the major focus of KP, the hands he goes all-in on are a little more specific.

There's also a good section on avoidong your own tells, since the typical reader is a newbie that should be far more concerned with giving tells than he is at reading tells.

Re: My Amazon review of Kill Phil
 

Actually I'd like a litte more indepth coverage of how to play yellow zone strategy ... that kind a annoys me

I tend to just slowly drift in to the orange zone without making anything for myself in the yellow zone

Re: My Amazon review of Kill Phil
 

Binions, thanks for the review. I bought the book and I agree with you, it's certainly an interesting read.

One question. You say you've applied this with success to SNG tourneys. At what level do you start using the KP strategy? It seems to me that moving in (without a premium hand during the first few levels when the stacks are SO large is unecessary. How have you been playing these yourself?

Thanks

Re: My Amazon review of Kill Phil
 

IIRC, they suggest playing a SnG using the final table strategy.

So basically wait untill 3-4 people are knocked out then start moving in.

Re: My Amazon review of Kill Phil
 

Thanks for your reply GG. Yes, I know they suggest this, but until the game becomes 6-handed they say you should follow the basic strategy. For online play they suggest (for example) moving in from either blind with groups 1-5 in an unraised pot with a big or huge stack. So if someone limps to me and I have AQ in the SB, I'm supposed to go all-in. This seems unecessary so early in the tourney when the blinds are small relative to the stacks.

I've just been playing my normal game until I drop into medium stack territory. I was just wondering how other people using the KP system have approached it.

Re: My Amazon review of Kill Phil
 

I read it too with much specualtion. Great book! I have just started using it on SNGs and the style is fun and and very frustrating for the other players. I haven't played it enough too give any sample size but i like what i see so far. And yes i have read all the other before mentioned books, and i am not comparing it too any of them. I believe it too be well worth the money..

Re: My Amazon review of Kill Phil
 

Anyone know the best place in Canada to get this book?

Re: My Amazon review of Kill Phil
 

link

Re: My Amazon review of Kill Phil
 

Would a KP SNG strategy work well even if the stacks are fairly big (i.e. Stars)?

Re: My Amazon review of Kill Phil
 

The book is certainly very interesting, but people should be aware that this strategy leads to lots of coin-flips where you are the underdog. You will be "in position" to get lucky, nothing more, nothing less. It is certainly difficult to beat the all-in strategy, but it is just as difficult for the all-in guy to survive all the time.

The authors state that in order to win a tournament you need to double up something like seven times. This makes me wonder, because I could go and play roulette as well. I put my money on black seven times in a row and look what happens.

Anyways, I will give KP a shot in our local tournament [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: My Amazon review of Kill Phil
 

Considering the absolute nonsense pumped out by the non-2+2 publishers out there, books like "Kill Phil" -- along with King Yao's and Barry Greenstein's -- are the best of that very sorted bunch.

Well-worth the time and the money, unlike a vast majority of what the non-2+2 world has to offer pokerdom.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

Re: My Amazon review of Kill Phil
 

If you are new to tournament play, what order would you recommend reading these books in?

[ QUOTE ]
"Kill Phil joins the Harrington books, David Sklansky's Tournament Poker for Advanced Players, Barry Greenstein's Ace on the River, Phil Gordon's Little Green Book and Howard Lederer's More Secrets of NLHE DVD as the best resources available on NLHE tourneys."

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: My Amazon review of Kill Phil
 

I would start with the DVD and really skip Greenstein's book, since it's more a story and less an instructional guide. Little Green Book is the least advanced of all of the them, but it still has some advanced concepts. I'd then follow it up with TPFAP then Harrington.

Re: My Amazon review of Kill Phil
 

If you want it served as an easy listening experience go with the DVD's

if you want instant results take a pint of Kill Phil

If you want to know about poker, then read Harrington

Barry, Phil Gordon and Sklansky are supplementary reading

Harrington is a bit on the heavy side and takes a while to read, but it is in my opinion the best book out there .. and of what I have heard Kill Phil suplements Vol. 2 of Harrington very nicely, so if I was new to NL Hold'em and wished to play tourneys, I'd buy those 3 books.

If I was new to NL Hold'em and didn't want to play tourneys, I'd still buy Harrington vol. 1 (It is a really really great book)