So rare it probably doesn\'t matter, but how do you play this river?
 

Hero is MP with K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Hero opens, Button 3 bets, BB calls, Hero calls

Flop: K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Hero bets, Button raises, BB folds, Hero calls

Turn: J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Hero bets, Button raises, Hero 3 bets, button calls

River : A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

c/c or bet/fold?

Re: So rare it probably doesn\'t matter, but how do you play this river?
 

3 AK, 3 QQ.

Bet/Call...and post reads.

Re: So rare it probably doesn\'t matter, but how do you play this river
 

there are 3 combos of AK (which fit the best imo), 3 of QQ (he would probably cap the turn with these though), and 3 of AA (which may not be raising our turn stop and go). i'm assuming KQ is out since it's the nuts on the turn and he didn't cap. he's betting with all, but only raising AA/AK, so check call.

edit: i played a hand similar to this before. i had KQ and was 3-bet preflop. flop was KKQ and we capped. turn blank and he called my 3-bet. river ace i check called.

Re: So rare it probably doesn\'t matter, but how do you play this river
 

No reads yet, first orbit. Just happened.

Re: So rare it probably doesn\'t matter, but how do you play this river
 

[ QUOTE ]
3 AK, 3 QQ.

Bet/Call...and post reads.

[/ QUOTE ]

you pay 2 when behind and win 1 when ahead?

Re: So rare it probably doesn\'t matter, but how do you play this river
 

[ QUOTE ]
you pay 2 when behind and win 1 when ahead?

[/ QUOTE ]
This makes sense to me. And it looks more than likely your behind, so I like check/call. I would do nothing that included a fold.

Re: So rare it probably doesn\'t matter, but how do you play this river
 

Isn't the bet/call, bet/3 bet thing a heads up line against an aggro villain? How come you're leading the flop? Didn't want it getting checked through, or did you think the other guy is just as likely to call 2 as 1, or some other reason?

Re: So rare it probably doesn\'t matter, but how do you play this river
 

are you saying you want to fold somewhere one this river? I want at least 1-2 bets going in on the river, expecially since the lack of a read gives us no reason to think we're probably behind.

Re: So rare it probably doesn\'t matter, but how do you play this river
 

I don't think leading this flop is a problem. It's a good thing to mix up your plays so that you're not predictable. A lot of players will see a donkbet here as a weak play because "obviously" a king would c/r or slowplay.

Re: So rare it probably doesn\'t matter, but how do you play this river
 

No one considers check-calling?

Re: So rare it probably doesn\'t matter, but how do you play this river
 

On the flop? I think it's good. I don't think this is bad though, especially against certain players.

Re: So rare it probably doesn\'t matter, but how do you play this river
 

[ QUOTE ]
No one considers check-calling?

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I would totally, but I suck.

Re: So rare it probably doesn\'t matter, but how do you play this river
 

[ QUOTE ]
On the flop? I think it's good. I don't think this is bad though, especially against certain players.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, on the river.

Re: So rare it probably doesn\'t matter, but how do you play this river
 

Ok. Against a solid player, I like check/call and occasionally bet/fold against those guys that you can be confident enough to do it. I'm leaning toward bet/call in this case cause so often against an unknown, they'll be doing something stupid with a hand outside of AK. I kinda feel like 0-1 bets on this river isn't enough against an average opponent...?

Re: So rare it probably doesn\'t matter, but how do you play this river
 

Just a side note to the main discussion, but if we're looking at this hand and we've got a good enough read to limit his holdings to AA/AK/QQ, AA/AK beating us and QQ losing to our hand, what is the probability of AA/AK vs. QQ?

QQ clearly has 3 possibilities. AA/AK could between 2.4 and 6 possibilities depending on how you look at it.

2.4 comes from the average of the number of hands present assuming all aces and kings are part of AA/AK. I'm not sure if we can look at it like this. To explain, here are the different sets that might lead you to think 2.4:

AA/AA/AA
AA/AK
AA/AK
AA/AK
AK/AK/AK

Taking the averages of these sets (3+3+2+2+2)/5 we get 2.4. This assumes that all aces and the king are only part of these hands though, which isn't necessarily the case. But if any aces or the king aren't part of these hands, then there are fewer AA/AK's possible.

Giving credit for 6 possible hands doesn't seem right because only 3 of the hands are possible at the same time AT MOST. (AA/AA/AA or AK/AK/AK)

Does anyone know what's right on this one?

Re: So rare it probably doesn\'t matter, but how do you play this river
 

[ QUOTE ]
are you saying you want to fold somewhere one this river? I want at least 1-2 bets going in on the river, expecially since the lack of a read gives us no reason to think we're probably behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. I think i like check-call.
I mean if he raises i think we are toast most of the time, and if ahead he will only call the river.
2 bets when behind, 1 bet when ahead.

What range are you putting this guy on?

Re: So rare it probably doesn\'t matter, but how do you play this river
 

I might be giving him too wide a range (which would be the cause for bet/call), but I could imagine some players doing this with AQ, ATc, JJ, TT. The chance of these hands being checking behind on the river and paying off if we bet makes me want to bet. Certainly we'll be paying of AK/AA sometimes, but I guess I'm assuming he's the usual idiot until I'm shown otherwise.

Re: So rare it probably doesn\'t matter, but how do you play this river
 

C/c
Suprised at the ammount of debate on this.

Re: So rare it probably doesn\'t matter, but how do you play this river?
 

Bet/call
Suprised at the ammount of debate on this.

Re: So rare it probably doesn\'t matter, but how do you play this river?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Bet/call
Suprised at the ammount of debate on this.

[/ QUOTE ]
Lmfao, Reasoning? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I want to hear this!

Re: So rare it probably doesn\'t matter, but how do you play this river?
 

Without a read, I'd have to go with bet/call.

Against any half-decent opponent, I would check/call, since it's now too likely that we're behind. But I'm never folding this.

But against the average 6max opponent I'm not as worried.